Went to check on my car Friday to see how my paint was coming along and I couldn't believe what I saw. The car was completely painted, but it looked like crap. It looked like they sprayed the paint on real thick because it had that orange peel look really bad. The entire car had been sanded down to the primer before being painted and the surface was perfect. I can't understand why the paint would come out like that. Does anyone know? They had to wash it and something else so I didn't get it that day. I also didn't say anything to them yet because I thought I would give them a chance and see if maybe they're just going to do something to take care of it. :mad

 

:bs Don't wait too long. They have the right to keep your car if you refuse to pay. If necessary to get your car back, use a credit card and then dispute the charge...

Do not pay them cash or check!

Good Luck

 

I have no problem with paying them when they say the car is ready, but if it doesn't look like it's supposed to I will have issues. Right now I'm just trying to figure out why the paint would look like that. I may just need to go to a different body shop and ask them some questions.

 

what color is it?

 

It's black and I know black shows things up more than anything else, but I don't understand how the previous paint job was completely smooth and looked like the finish on a brand new car, but now it's completely different.

 

Sounds normal to me. When base coat/ clear coat is applied the clear coat is applied in several coats(4-5 normally), the last couple of coats go on thick. Orange peel forms, but the final step in your paint job is what they call color sanding where a super fine (1500-2000 grit) sand paper is passed on the new paint lightly scratching the clear but grinding down uneveness(orange peel, even runs and particles of dirt) The scuffed up clear is then polished with a finishing compound(super light abrasive) polishing out the scuffing from the color sanding process, resulting in a super smooth glass like finish. :thumbs:

Forget about what you saw the other day, now when you go to pickup your car and pay for it, and the end result is less than expected, then you let them have it...... But trust me, a base coat/ clear paint job that hasn't been color sanded and polished looks like crap.

 

Thanks. I knew all about wet sanding and I was hoping they hadn't done that yet. I just didn't realize the paint could look that bad before it was finished.

 

When my car was painted the color coat (before the clear coat) it looked like junk, they had the targa top clear coated and it looked nothing like the rest of the car, I would have bet that they were two different colors. But it all came out great in the end

 

I wanted to vomit when I picked up my car. But then I went to work wet sanding and compounding. The result is night and day. I'm sure they know what they're doing and it will come out fine.

:cheers:

 

:iagree: The clear coat goes on really thick at the end and they end up sanding the surface, the rubbing it out then buffing

 

I'd like to make a few comments.

First of all, clearcoat is not put on in "coats". NEVER judge a paintjob when someone says, oh yeah, I've got 7 coats of clear... That's BULLpoopie.

Paint is put on in thicknesses, obviously, to produce a thickness of say 3mils you would end up getting roughly 2 coats of basecoat and 2 coats of clearcoat. Anything less will not leave the protection available that comes with using a BC/CC system and if you put too much more than that, the paint could crack, solvent pop or yellow.

The only time more clear is put on is when a paint job is for a show car.. even at that, a car must be blocked, primed, based, cleared, sanded down and rebased and cleared AGAIN. If it's not a showjob, then a painter may add extra clear if he has the intention of wetsanding and buffing. Wetsanding will remove some of the thickness and thus leave a final paintjob with the correct thickness.

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is when a shop tries to sell a customer a job by stating that they are putting on 6 or 7 coats of clear. Can anyone tell me if 12 light coats of clear is better than 3 heavy ones... it all is determined by how much a painter lays down on his swath of paint and spray pattern. If the quantity of paint that is being put down is correct, then generally it will come out to a couple coats of clear (again, for a "normal" paintjob)

As far as having orange peel in a paintjob, a good painter should be able to spray and leave a close to mirror like finish that needs minor wetsanding and buffing just to shine it up and/or remove minimal trash. (you can always tell how good a prep job prior to painting is by how much trash is in the paint before buffing)

I myself am only a mediocre painter, I have to wetsand and buff my jobs... however, my painters can paint circles around me and leave a finish that is second to none before it has been wetsanded and buffed.

Orange peel can be caused by several things. Incorrect ratio of reducers, wrong temp reducers, wrong temp spraying, incorrect spray patterns, too much air pressure, standing too far away from the vehicle, etc, etc...

I would wait until I saw the finished product and if you are not satisfied with the finish, tell the shop that you want the car wetsanded and buffed before you pick it up.

Hope that helps...

Mark

 

Newbie, when we painted my 1969 442 we put on 3-4 coats of Polyurethane clear, then wet sanded, then 3-4 coats of clear until we had a deep deep coat of clear, if I remember correctly we put on a total of @ 34 coats but obviously it was reduced by the wet sanding. We were sinking a candy apple flame job into the clear.

Agreed, maybe a street car has less coats but they still do the wet sanding unless its an excellent painter laying down the coats


[Modified by ld85, 10:28 PM 10/27/2003]

 

I just repainted my car in my garage. I am doing a Grand Sport clone on a 87 coupe. Before we added the clear coat the car was purple, and then after it was the admiral blue. We had to use 1500 grit to color sand out the some of the dust that stuck in the clear. There was some orange peel do to the lighting in the garage but after it was done it looked great. The only thing I see is if you look close you can see swirl marks from the orbital buffer. I think that some swirl remover can fix that. Here are some pics of the car getting done. The car is finished now. I will get some pics posted when I get back from hunting. http://www.photohost.org/gallery/dat...primer-med.jpg http://www.photohost.org/gallery/dat...3front-med.jpg

 

I put the pics in wrong! Sorry!!!

 

Id85,

What you said is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. 34 coats??? Okay, let's look at this. 34 coats @1.5-2 mils per thickness, I'd say that you should have oh, I don't know, about 1/4" of clear... If the coats were ever so light, what's the point, are 34 coats better than 4 thicker coats? And most certainly, the coats had to be fairly light because even if you're wetsanding, you can only end up with a certain thickness... otherwise the doors won't open, emblems won't fit and things like lock cylinders won't go through the hole all the way.

Not to mention that too much clear will not allow the previous coats to breathe, the solvents will try to come through and the end result will be little tiny bubbles known as solvent popping.

It reminds me of when I watch inexperienced bodymen apply any bondo. They apply it, sand it down, apply it, sand it down, opps, a little more, sand it down... What a waste. It's the same thing with clearing. Too much on just to wetsand it off is a waste of time and materials.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT CAN ONLY BE A CERTAIN THICKNESS WHEN ITS DONE.

Obviously you're car came out well but I'll play that game, I can paint your car in 12 coats... ;)



Ravinwolf,

Car looks great (especially for doing it in a garage, muuuch harder than using a booth) I'd like to see pics of it once it was wetsanded. Looks like you layed the clear down pretty well. If all you used was 1500 to get some trash out, then it was definitely laid down well.

Typically, when I wetsand a car. Depending on how much clear was put on, I'll start off with 1000 grit, then 1500, 2000, 2500 and 3000 if necc.

No disrespect or insults to anyone, just saying like it is...


:cheers:

Mark


[Modified by C4 Newbie, 5:54 AM 10/28/2003]

 

I saw your car over at Bradshaw's when it was in pieces, I thought they were going to total it? Well for what its worth you aren't the only one to complain about shotty paint work from them. I have never liked them either. A friend of mine dropped off his car to have a door put on and painted. They gave it back with 2 big runs on the edges. He didn't bother with it and just let it go because its his wife's beater but that just shows you how "Proud" they are of their work. If you do decide to take it somewhere else let me know, I can give you some better people.

I would say go there and ask if they are going to wet-sand/buff the car. If so give them enough time to get it done so that they don't do a rush job. If they say no might as well tell them it is not satisfactory before they go to long. Good luck.

 

:iagree:

 

A good painter should be able to lay down 2-3 coats of clear with no sanding. I can almost do that and I have only painted 3 cars in my short life. Any more than 4-5 coats (at 1-2 mils - I never payed attention) and you are asking for troubles (mentioned above) unless you sanded most of the clear off in which case one should have just put 3-4 good, careful coats on in the first place and saved a lot of time and material (clear ain't cheap). You should never put coats of paint (clear or otherwise) on any thicker than is really necessary. it wastes material and time during the sanding and weakens the overall system.

When we painted my dad's 86, the clear (2 coats) turned out pretty damn good considering we had no booth. There is so little orange peel that we decided not to sand at all. Unfortunately, when you look close you can see dust etc. in the paint from no booth to keep things clean.

 

Orange peel:
Paint is to thick, low air pressure, heavy coats, hot weather, etc.
A paint finish should be very close to a wet sand and buff finish before it is wet sanded and buffed.
A rough finish after a spray just goes to show you that the painter is clueless.
It makes the work of wet sanding and polish a lot harder to do.
A good spray job should mirror the prep work.

As far 5 coats, 10 coats, etc. I consider a coat of paint as a complete pass around the car with the spray gun. Thats one coat. 2 passes thats 2 coats.

If your paint is reduced properly and the temps are good each coat should melt into the previous coat and become one coat.
So in that sence its really only one coat.

The paint job in question may very well trun out good buts the hard way around the horn.
How do I know? I've been using the same spray gun since 1980.

 

Got to agree with the few coaters. One of the best paint jobs I have ever seen had a total of three coats. Painter had about ten awards for each coat.