Good afternoon everyone. I bought a new '05 (not a vette) for work. Someone told me a couple of day ago that alot of the new cars are coming from the factory with a "black box" somewhere in the brains of the ECM for "recording and safety purposes." My question is, is there anyway to reprogram the ECM to null and void this black box and have any of you out there been caught doing something naughty and convicted in a court of law by this big brother INTRUSION.

 

Here in Canada i am an Insurance broker.

Some of the Insurers up here not only have aftermarket systems but are also pushing for more factory installs.

As it has been explained to me...The information stored is your property, no one elses.

If in a situation where the box could reveal your inocents in a wreck or whatever you could have it pulled for your review.

Again as i understand it, if you don't like what you see, speed or what ever you keep the information to your self.

 

I can see that there will be a time that if you get in a wreck that the cops are going to walk up, plug in and download all the data from the car computer. It will be built into the equipment that is used now to give tickets. (Here in TX they have readers that allow them to swipe your drivers license and they get all the data off it. They then print out the ticket with a little printer on the top of it.)

I am sure that somewhere out there a group is trying to get a new law passed. It will force all the companies out there to put in standard dataloggers that the law will have access to.

And as for the "It's your data and you dont have to give that to them." Yeah... Try that when a court ask for the data. That would be like trying to say the IRS does not have the rights to look at your banking details.


Tim

 

I too am from Canada, and there has already been a conviction in BC (June 2003) based on info from this so called BLACK BOX. There has to be a way to disable it!

 

most cars in the u.s have black boxs started in 2000 were just finding uot about it now. and yes it will be use agants you or for you in the courts soon

 

So much for invasion of privacy. When do we get the chips in the neck? They're always figuring some way to watch everything you do.

 

Wife`s daily driver is a `03 Sable. Right in the owner`s manual it states that there is a data recording device, that measures speed before impact in an accident. Wether you had your seatbelt on while you were driving. The speed you were going. & how hard you hit the brakes. I don`t have the manual in front of me, but I know it states something to the effect that this information can be downloaded by law enforcement officials, & INSURANCE COMPANY officials. On the Merc. it even logs wether your front seat passenger has their seatbelt on. So as far as the information being "private", that would seem to be total . Scary ain`t it

 

Real scary.

 

i don't have it anymore, but autoweek did a multi page article on the black box. i am not sure, but try a seach on autoweek.com and check it out. very eye opening!! private ain't private.

 

But do any of you know any way or or anyone who can disable this freaking thing? After a few years of driving the Autobahn in Germany, the way I drive and the way some OTHER'S drive don't exactly see eye to eye. Needless to say, if something were to happen i'd probably be S.O.L. thats the reason for the inquiry.
Oh by the way, did the C-5s and C-6s come with this stupid thing? Thank's folk's

 

Tough issue indeed. As far as accident related information it might help you if you are in the right or screw you royally if your the jacked up one. Regardless of who is at fault, your privacy will be taken. So who's to say how far they can push this? Corporate companies that invest in this and push it? Sooner or later law enforment will have this hooked up to a GPS unit or another tracking method and as soon as you speed Ticket will be mailed to your home. Your location given up at any point in time.
Yes it is scary

 

Black box:
A guy here in California was convicted of manslaughter with a car.
He hit a teenage girl backing out of her parents driveway. She died.

He said he was going the speed limit 30 mph. The black box said he was going 85mph.
The guy has multiple dui's and a revoked license. He's in state prison where he belongs.

In this case the black box convicted a criminal and put him jail.

His victims, the kid who died, and her family, who will never get over thier loss would disagree that the black box was a tool of the government.

Invasion of privacy:
Any cell phone conversation can be listened to legally. If its on the airwaves it can be intercepted without a warrrant.

In this state the only time a warrant is needed to listen to your phone calls is on a land line.

To qualify to buy a home you have to give your SSI no, and date and place of birth to get a loan thanks to Home Security. Thats nothing new you had to before.
This is an open society.

Personally I don't have a problem with the black box.
In this state 10% of the drivers don't use thier seatbelt, another 69% drive at over 70mph, another 19% drive at over 80mph.

Speed and alcohol related deaths are up 23.5 percent in the four years since 1999 to 2003.

Theres two sides to everything.

 

I'm catagorically against "black boxes" for reasons which there's not enough space on this forum to explain. Any in my cars will be disabled.

 

OK, again I ask, does anyone know how to disable this stupid thing. And yes i'll agree this can convict a criminal here and there but "I" have a right to MY privacy.

 

Redwing: Looking at this objectively, anyone with multiple DUI's and is habitually driving 55MPH over the speed limit with a revoked drivers license, should have been stopped by the police way before he caused an accident. Anyone with that profile would get jail time in my state. That would've prevented the accident. Unfortunately, he wasn't caught in time.

The black box did not prevent the accident; it was used as a tool for the prosecution.

In addition, I am not saying the prosecutor using the black box in this case is a bad thing, but it is, by definition, a tool of the government.

I believe previous posts where concerned about the 'box' being used against them if they want to open up their Vettes on a lonely stretch of highway. Allot more innocent than vehicular homicide.

 

Here is my take - we are screwed.

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=101136

Autoweek says it better than I can.

 

My answer no. My guess is others that have responded do not know either. What it actually is might help though with others.

It is likely not a seperate module but integrated into the PCM or more likely the SDM. (sensing diagnostic module, brain of the SRS system) The fact that all modules in a car talk, they could put it anywhere. I have personally never seen an undefined module physically or in a wiring diagram.

SDM records for accident conditions and PCM is always recording to save freeze frame data for failure code diagnostics. Onstar has a Vehicle Interface Unit that can access info and control modules in the car (i.e. remote unlocking, failure code reading, SRS deployment, etc)
Take your pick and remove one.

 

Wow that article says it all...Sell the public 300-500 horsepower vehicles and watch them like little mice to see if they go over 55 mph, if they do and happen to be involved in an accident use this BLACK BOX info to prosecute them. THAT SHOULD BE AGAINST YOUR RIGHTS! one should have the option as to whether or not you want this BLACK BOX installed into your new vehicle. If GM or any other vehicle manufacturer wants to do BLACK BOX real world testing, they should have pay you to participate in this program "test on your own vehicles not mine". After all do you rent these vehicles or do you own them...If I buy it, I own it, and like an airbag or a set of rims, should be able to add on or take off anything I want.

 

Like cable TV scramblers and de-scramblers, rest assure that somebody will develop a disable system for the black box. Of course they'll probably be very costly once they hit the market. But should be less expensive as competitors begin manufacturing similar devices. There is no avoiding "big brother", he'll always be watching us! This high tech crap is biting us all in the ***!

 

It is very tricky indeed. While we may own the car they are used on public highways and subject to regulation. You can put your own wheels and tires on, so long as they meet legal standards. As far as owning the info, you do. However, law enforcement can obtain evidence and confiscate items believed to have been used in the commission of a crime. You own the gun and barrel, but it can be siezed, and forensic evidence from it obtained.

Can you be monitored, w/out probable cause? Yes, speed traps are exactly that.

A legal nightmare this is....