I'm doing an independent oiling system for my turbo setup. Something very similar to what BTF has. I've got a 2.1GPM Tilton pump pulling oil through a cooler and from a resevoir. The oil is then getting pumped through an oil filter and into the turbo where it drains. Everything is 6an line except where the turbo drains that's 1/2" hose.

I've got the system hooked up and in the car. I filled it up with oil and tried running it and it didn't seem to be pumping very much oil through the system. It seems to be just barely druling out when I thought it would be gushing a bit more. I thought it might be a week battery but I put it on the charger yesterday and tried it again tonight and still the same. Could my pump be bad. I guess I can time how long it takes to fill up a quart and figure it out exactly.

My second problem is my idiot light seems to be an open circuit, even when the pump is off. I thought the pressure switches should be a closed circuit to turn on the idiot light and an open circuit when there's enough pressure. I'll have to look into this one.

If anybody has any ideas or comment lets hear them please.

 

MN,
What kind of pump is the tilton.. Diaphram pumps are best for draw systems where others like to have a gravity feed better then having to pull the opil from the resevoir. Gerators anre next in line.. vane pumps don't like to work to get the oil, but do well for pushing it.. so let us know what kind of pump the Tilton is.. I have heard of them several times, just not familiar with one or have never put my hands on before! also.. if it is the correct style pump for draw.. are you sure all your fittings are correctly fastened and there are no air leaks bvetween said pump and resevoir?

2.1GPM is not that much, is it a pump designed for lower volume and higher pressure? also -6an feed line seems like it may be a little on the big side after the filter to the turbo.. -4 would be my preference from all the readong I have done, but I cannot say that the -6 would not work. -4an I have experience with and works well! anyways.. snap us some pics man! I have some pics of my new turbo!!! whoo hoo!! T74GTS...

Chris

 

It says that the Tilton is a postive displacement diaphram pump. What ever that means.

http://www.tiltonbrake.com/pdfs/43.pdf

The more I read into it I think the pump is only designed to go 1-2 GPM, I'm sure with the restrictions in the oil lines that I'm not getting the max 2gpm.

Maybe it's time to look into the pump that BTF uses. I think I saw it on the internet for $85 somewhere.

As for the line to the turbo, I do have a reducer to a 4an just before it goes into the turbo.



I just checked the pump output and I ran it for two minutes and I got less than a half quart of oil out the other side. I checked for leaks and there's a few drips here and there, but nothing big at all. I guess I can pull the pump apart and check it, or just buy a new one. grrrrrrr

Oh and I checked the pressure sensor using my air compressor, it us a closed circuit when there's pressure, I'll have to figure out how to make that one work.

 

What viscosity oil are you using? remember a t4 frame only needs a half gpm or so at idle and a gpm or so on boost. I know this sounds silly but inlet/outlet +polarity correct? Ther're efficient in one direction only.
My pump is basically your pump with a different eccentric and sticker. I used it to suck out the oil in a boat (hey it was out of the car, why not) 4 quarts in no time. something is F'd with your pump. or your trying to pump gear oil, lol.

 

Use it to energize the coil on a standard relay. use the normally closed side of the relay to light the bulb.
Pressure= energized coil=open circut
no pressure=non-energized coil= closed circut, lighted idoit light.

 

I'm trying to pump normal motor oil, just whatever I had lying around the house. half mobil1 and half penzoil I think 10-W30. I tore the pump down and the motor runs fine, the diaphram seems ok, a little cupped when it's lying there, but looks ok. I'm wondering if the check valve got stuck closed. I'm going to try and check that out a bit more when I get home tonight. They want $30 for a new diaphram kit and $25 for a new check valve. So I'm not sure if it's worth buying new parts or a whole new pump.

BTF, we have similar pumps, except yours is a 3 piston and mine's only a 2 piston. But the big difference is that mine is rated for 250 degrees of liquid temp. I think the shurflo is only 130 or so. atleast it was on the ones that I could pull up the tech spec on .

As for the idiot light, a normally closed relay sounds like ti would be the easiest way to go. But I've got a guy looking into sticking a transistor and a resitor with the led to make it work that way. its cheaper with the transistor.

 

It depends on what diaphram you order. I ordered a set for hot hydocarbons. I belive it's rate for 180 continuous, 230 for short periods. I 've never measure turbo oil temps (other than the ray gun) so Im not sure if I exceeded them. But I pulled the pump all apart and the diaphram is soft pliable and looks likt the day i put it in there ( I can''t help but take things apart when I get them). Yep a good ol npn transistor will work too.

 

Did you get it figured out? FYI we used 0w20 mobil 1 in bruce's car. it had a powerful stream coming out free flow (-4 an) It cycles on and off in the video you can hear it. maintains 40 psi.

 

I took the pump apart and everything looked fine, so I ordered a new check valve and a new diaphram kit. Hopefully it'll be here by Friday.

I'm gonna have a busy weekend if all my parts show up
New keyless entry system
Laptop Stand just went in
Just got my circuit for the oil pressure idiot light
Just ordered some GPS navigation hardware/software
Need to install new power seat switches
And the oil pump.

 

Well, after two weeks of waiting I finally got my Tilton pump parts. I managed to get them slapped together during lunch today. I'll let you guys know if it works when I test it tonight.

My custom pistons are finally done, off at the coaters now, so I'm only a few weeks away from hearing the turbo spool.

 

GRRRRRRR, I replace the stuff and nothing much more than it was before. I decided to take out the restriction of the oil filter and the cooler and it's flowing about 1 quart per minute. Still way shy of the 1-2 GPM that it should be flowing though.

Is there something wrong with using 6AN lines?? Do I need a better pump? Any body have any suggestions??

 

Here are the steps I would take.

1. Make sure you are getting a full 12 volts to the pump.
2. CHECK AND RE-CHECK YOUR GROUND!!! If you don't have a good ground you're not getting the full power from your pump.
3. Make sure that you are not getting any restrictions through the line.. take it off and blow compressed air though it.
4. Connect the line directly to the pump.... with no restrictions. See how much it will pump.
5. As Rick sugested if you don't see the kind of volume you should perhaps you can try some lighter weight oil.
6. Last but not least make sure the pump you are using is made to push liquids as heavy as oil.

 

Tony, Thanks for the input.

I've got them hooked directly up to the battery, and the battery up to a charger. The only thing is that I'm using 18ga wire, but I wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference.


I did this when I first put it all together, everything was clean as could be.

I hooked it up with just the 6an lines and it was flowing about 1qt/min. Nowhere close to what it should be.


It's ment for differential fluid circulation which is 75 weight oil, I'm not sure if its easier or harder to push, but the instruction manual says that I need to wait until it heats up before pumping it. Not really an option in my application.

I guess I'm left with two solutions
1.) buy a bigger pump that can handle the flow with the restrictions and the given weight oil

2.) Switch back to a conventional oiling system using the engine oil feed. I would probably run an inline cooler going into the turbo to help with oil temps if I did this.

 

Sounds like you have done your homework... I agree that one of the above choices are your best bet.

 

Well, I called shurflo earlier and they told me that they don't have an continuous duty pumps. Given that I like to take 8 to 10 hour road trips with my car I don't think I want a pump that the maker doesn't recomend for continuous use.

So it looks like I'm going to have to figure out how to run the lines to the oil pan and the filter port. I'm going to put an oil cooler in the 6an feed line to the turbo, would there be any issues with that? I'm necking it down to 4an just before it goes into the turbo.

This should be fun putting a hole in my $300 oil pan. Not having the engine this is going to be trial and hope. I'm planning on drilling a hole on the front corner of the pan. Hopefully this will stay out of the way of everything. A little JB weld should hold the fitting on there nicely.

 

The key is brother, you need to build a larger volume above the turbo, filters, coolers, etc all after it. The pump won't be continuous, it switches itself off and on according to pressure. Listen to the beginning of bruces shorter vid, you can here is cycle on and off. about 6 seconds on, 6 seconds off. this is because it builds 40 psi in the volume before the turbo, and takes a few seconds to bleed down, the the swich closes and repeats. let me ask you this much, your suction line, is it -6? It might be too small. Like sucking through a straw. I used 3/4" hose on my car, and I think 1/2" on bruces. it shot a 6" stream of solid oil out the end of the -4 free flow.cold.

 

Yeah, 8an should have been what I used. I didn't realize your pump pulsed like that. That makes more sense now.

So instead of replacing all the lines I think I'm going to go with the traditional type of oil system.

I'm running into a problem with my oil return setup though. Since the return line is directly next to the turbine flange I'm going to have to go with an 10an fitting to keep the hose from melting. The only problem is that with the turbo sitting on the cross member I can't use a strait an hose end, I tried a 45 degree angle and that didn't fit either. I'm going to have to go with a 90 to clear the cross member and then drop down to the oil pan level. Will this cause a problem with the return flow? I can't see any other way to get around it without drilling a hole strait through the crossmember.

 

The front crossmember? before the motor? I'd say drill it. Futhermore Id say cap the ends of it and use it as your oil tank. No kidding. I found a pic of our frames detailing where and what type of steel. The front is normal old mild steel. Not the heat treated high strength variety. = Safe to weld to/on.

 

Brian,

with the opti gone.. I am welding a piece of 1" aluminum piping to the timing chain cover at a slanted 90* angel aimed back up towards the turbo and at the end of it, I will have a -12an male fitting welded to attach the female -12an hose fitting to. this is much simpler then tapping the pan, and is out of the way and a direct return to the pan as the timing chaincover is essentially the front of the oil pan. easiest way i found to do it so far, and the feed line is going to be solid bent stainles tube 1/4" or maybe 5/16" from the oil filter auxiliary oil pressure outlet. it will run upbehind the motor and down the fuel rail under the cover and to the turbo mounted right there at the front right of the motor.. this seemed much simpler to me then any of the other methods and I feel more comfortable with it provided all fittings are properly sealed with no leaks and tight. if wanted, a cooler could be put inline on the feed side with larger line going from the block to the cooler and then neck it down to 1/4" or 5/16" after the cooler to slow the oil flow through the cooler and allow longer dissipation time in the core so the oil is much cooler and could actually be used to help keep the CHRA cooled under heavy loads for longer bearing life then non cooled oil. I have not yet gotten there yet, but this is what I have in mind with all the room where the drivers side cat used to be. a high volume oil pump may not be a bad idea to support the new cooler and the turbo, so I went with just that, a blue printed pump. hope this gives ya a few other ideas to kick around man! back to the garage for me!

Chris

 

I really don't want to drill out the cross member, I just kind of through it out there as a joke. The timing cover idea is a good thought. I think I'm still stuck with the 90 degree connector though.

It's really had for me to figure this all out since I dont' have my engine, and I can only guess and see if it comes out right.

Acutally I think I can get the return line to do a gradual slope across the cross member and over to the driver side, snake it around the accessory belt and engine mount and put it strait into the oil pan. It's the definaley the senic route, but I think it'll work.