Which would be what, every 3000 miles for highway driving with syn?
And doing this would avoid excessive cylinder wall wear?

 

It would be more like 1500 to 2000 miles. The more frequent oil changes will get the moisture and acids out of the oil pan that isn't being boiled out by sufficiant temps, for sufficient periods of time. The extra cylinder wear is pretty much unavoidable, as it is caused mostly during warm up, which is extended by a too cool thermostat.

RACE ON!!!

 

If you get your programming group together let me know I'd probably get in on that!

 

One thing you may want to consider when programing your fans, 160 or 180 degree stats. do not run at those temps when your system is cooling at peak performance. I've recently tried both, the stats only begin to open at those temps. (more or less), but are not completely open till about 12 or 13 degrees later. My 160 stat. begins to open at 160, is open all the way at approx. 173 and coolant temp stays there unless I get into traffic (which is often). My fans are programed to come ON at 203 (primary) and 205 (secondary), they go OFF at 190 & 188 respectively. I have found that gap between 173 and 203 is not reached that often and the fans are not going on/off constantly. Urban traffic, of course, presents the heaviest fan operations. Although I could program things to be much cooler, I prefer to let the engine temps go a little higher for better efficiency and less wear and tear on the fans; but I do not want to have temps in the 220's or 230's.
Follow Jackdaroofers advice below.

 

[QUOTE=tsts] I've recently tried both, the stats only begin to open at those temps. (more or less), but are not completely open till about 12 or 13 degrees later. My 160 stat. begins to open at 160, is open all the way at approx. 173 and coolant temp stays there unless I get into traffic (which is often).QUOTE]

You should look at using a hi flow balanced thermostat (such as Cobra Valley http://performanceunlimited.com/cobr...hermostat.html )

These type of thermostats operate with 2° of accuracy and fail to the open condition.

 

QUOTE CFI-EFI:

I installed A Hypertech Thermomaster chip in my car along with the 160* stat and my car ran slower in the 1/4 mile. It was the chip, not the stat. Forget the 160* stat unless you take it to the track, often, and go to the trouble to cool it between rounds. On the street, a cooler stat will not make the car run cooler. It will only serve to make it take longer to warm up. Think about what it is that a stat does. My guess is that for your usage, the 195* stat and earlier fan on temps would work very well. The 180* would be OK. Don't go to a 160* stat unless you have a dedicated purpose, understand the consequences, and alter your maintenance schedule accordingly

and

It would be more like 1500 to 2000 miles. The more frequent oil changes will get the moisture and acids out of the oil pan that isn't being boiled out by sufficiant temps, for sufficient periods of time. The extra cylinder wear is pretty much unavoidable, as it is caused mostly during warm up, which is extended by a too cool thermostat.

END QUOTE


My '88 has had the Hypertech chip and 160 stat combo for over 15 years. I don't run the drag strip so this wasn't ever a concern. I like the early fan turn-on (170) and the delayed converter lockup and I wouldn't go back to stock chip and temps for anything. I have the front and rear fan wired to come on together. My car rarely sees 180 in traffic and never 190 with the ac on. Granted the car has less than 60k but I only change oil (weaned on Mobil 1) once a year and the engine looks like new with the valve covers off and has the same compression as a decade ago. Yes, the cooler stat lets my car run cooler. No, it doesn't take longer to warm up (not to the current operating temp). Why would it? It actually takes less time to reach a steady 160.

CFI-EFI, I have the most respect for your knowledge. But where are you guys getting your facts? This subject has come up years ago when I worked for GM with engineering. Going from 180 to 160 is hardly enough to alter the time to remove moister from the crankcase. Insuficient driving time is harmful no matter which stat you choose. Moisture and acids do not mix with synthetic like it does with petroleum oils (forming varnish and sludge), maybe a reason for my car's longevity.

If you can show me hard facts to reveal otherwise, I'll concede. Otherwise I've been around too long to believe differntly.

 

Here is my take on this... If your cooling system is good enough to actually keep the engine at 160 on a hot day, then a 160 stat is OK... BUT, as many have mentioned the cooling system for the Vette is not as it was designed for a 195 stat. So here's what happens, on a hot day (it does make a difference as to the ambient temp.) the radiator becomes less effecient in that it does not remove as much heat in the same time as it would on a colder day. Of course the amount of water moving through the system is the exact same no matter what level of ambient temp. So, unless your radiator is overbuilt in a sense, the 160 stat sticks open and starts a viscous cycle of recirculating ever increasing hot water through your motor. At some point the temps will hopefully stablize at such time as your radiator can keep the temps under control with essentially no help from the stat. What this means is that in most cases your car will most likely run cooler with a 180 or 195 stat depending on your radiator's cooling capacity. The stat really does perform a function by holding the water inside the radiator long enough so that it can be cooled. Does that make sense?

 

If the extra ounce of performance isn't your concern, why the inefficient cold temps?It DOES take longer to warm up after the stat opens, because before the stat opens, the coolant is trapped in the engine to absorb heat. That is the reason that there IS a thermostat. For quick warm ups. No other reason. Once the stat opens, the coolant flows through the radiator, cooling it. Therefore any further increase, over the stat opening point, of the coolant temp takes longer because of stat allowing the coolant to pass through the radiator. THAT is why it would (does).Are you saying that your engine warms to 160 more quickly with a 160 stat than it does with a higher temp stat? That is nuts! A closed stat is a closed stat, regardless of the number stamped on it. The coolant will come to any pre-opening temp at the same rate regardless of the stat installed.Test results and data have been posted over the months and years . I don't have access to them at the moment, and It is clear from the above that digging them out would be a waste of time. Obviously, your mind is filled with false premises and is made up. You are happy and seem to have no questions. And if you are happy, that's great. I am here to help those with honest questions and concerns, not to debate misconceptions with someone that THINKS they have the answers and is seeking no help.

RACE ON!!!

 

this was brought up on the Z28 forum not long ago:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=coolant+temps

read the reply's by "injuneer"

 

My questions about the 160 vs 180 thermostat has been resolved back on the first page. The discussion of using aftermarket power chips vs burning the stock one vs alternative fan activation methods was discussed and concluded.

I thank those who did give valueable responses (ie. CFI-EFI, korvette4u, vader86 to name a few). Please keep it up.

99svrcpe, that is a great link. "injuneer" knows his thermo dynamics and hasn't seemed to confuse theory with urban myth.

 

What's sufficient time? If I have a 160 stat, my oil typically runs 190 F on a cool day or 195 on a warmer day, if I'm not running the car hard. Figure maybe 30 minutes a clip at this temp.

Then if I go to a road course, I can be at 210-220 oil for 20 minutes.
I would think this would light up anything in there? It didn't get that hot w/the stock stat if not run hard, especially in winter. In fact, I can remember, on cold winter days it used to get to 190 oil only. I don't drive it in winter anymore so it doesn't see this usage.

So am I right in thinking that using the 160 is just like driving your car in cold weather (say 0 deg. F)?

 

First it's hard to quantify "What's sufficient time?". There just too many variables. One would be the number of cold starts with short hop driving that would contribute to the amount of contaminants to be burned off. You don't say anything about your coolant temps. My guess is that if you are hammering it for 30 minutes on a road course, that the coolant temps are exceeding your stat opening of 160, by quite a bit. If that is the case, a stat significantly lower than your operating temp is contributing nothing to the cause.

Personally, I don't like to see my oil temps under 200*. It takes me about a half hour of freeway cruising at moderate ambient temps to get there. And as you asked, and I partially answered, the temperature of the oil would be a factor in "What's sufficient time?". The hotter the oil, the quicker the containments will evaporate or boil off.

Driving with a cooler stat is not like driving in cold weather. With a 195* stat, the water is going to stay in the block until it gets to 195*. It doesn't matter if it is 0* out or 120*. The water is forced to reach the set temp before it is subject to cooling. If it is really cold, and the radiator cools the water to 195* or below, the stat will shut and maintain that minimum water temp.

The purpose of a thermostat is to provide quick warm ups. If a cooler stat is used than the eventual operating temp, the stat is stopped short of completing is job. After the stat is open, it is as though it doesn't exist. A point for all to remember, is that the stat only controls how cool the engine CAN run. It establishes the minimum operating temp. It has no effect on how hot it can run. Once it has opened, it has no control over how hot things get.

I hope that answers your question. If not, I'll make another run at it.

RACE ON!!!

 

Whoa, CFI-EFI. I didn't mean to upset you. Like I said earlier there was no intention to diss your knowledge. I was merely showing what works for me and over time still does.

Jim

 

I'm not upset. And I don't feel dissed, but thank you for your concern. There is just enough that just isn't possible, in that thread that casts a shadow on all that you posted. And the falsehoods need to be exposed for the benefit of those that may believe them.Unless the "current operating temp" is 160* or damn close, there is no way, that the temps won't climb at a slower rate with an open stat than a closed stat. I have explained why. Also, if the stat isn't open, it won't get to 160* any faster or slower, regardless of the stat installed. Closed is closed! It's that simple.

Those statements, indicate a lack of understanding on what the thermostat does and how the cooling system reacts. I'm afraid I can't allow them to remain unchallenged, to protect the innocent.

You make a point of your experience. If YOU are happy with what you've done and how it does or doesn't affect your engine, then there is really nothing more for me to say. If you are happy, then that's all that counts.

RACE ON!!!