Here's the links to the pics.

http://www.curtisgulick.com/davidjor.../cylinders.jpg

http://www.curtisgulick.com/davidjor...he-problem.jpg

http://www.curtisgulick.com/davidjor...water-pipe.jpg

http://www.curtisgulick.com/davidjor...re-these-2.jpg

http://www.curtisgulick.com/davidjor...-are-these.jpg

Finally got the heads off. Ton of questions for you guys that have done your own work.

First the water pipe in the back. Do the holes in the bolts have to line up to something or (from what I can tell) it appears the hole the bolt goes in is over sized and it doesn't matter? I do know one thing, they were in WAY TO tight. I have a feeling they didn't bother to replace the gaskets so they over tightened them BIG TIME. I'm going to have to buy new ones as they are pretty messed up now after fighting to get them out. I couldn't even get a regular wrench on them as they weren't even straight on the sides.

Second as you can see from one of the pics, I found why my number two cylinder was down. The valve isn't closing all the way. Any clues as to what would cause that?

Third, in the "what are these pics", can someone tell me what the plastic looking thing on the inside of the left spring is? Close to the top? As you can see, the one on the left is intack, the one on the right of the pic has been broken for some reason. Not sure what would cause that? I've got a couple of them that are bad.

Fourth, do the pistons look okay? I haven't really taken one this far apart but once, and I was wondering if the pistons look normal? I'm sure all the carbon build up is because it really hasn't been run on the highway for some time now. Just a 1/2 dozen or so starts to move it around before I pulled it apart.

Last,

From the cylinders shot, does anyone think somethings been hitting? If somethings hit the pistions, I really don't see any signs of it myself? Would it be real obvious?

 

hm. valve not closing all the way? Sounds like someone ****ed up when they did the valve job.

That "thing" looks like a valve seal of some sort... and it ain't where it's supposed to be.

That pipe? I have no clue... I would have to check my Helm Manual.

The pistons are black... but that doesn't mean bad. Are you going to rebuild the bottom end? If so, clean'm up. If anything, your motor has been running REAL RICH. And there might be a touch of oil getting in.

Yes, I don't see any sign of things hitting.

A favour, since you are linking, can you make the pictures bigger? This will allow for better detail.

 

Actually GLOCKLT4 linked for me and made the pics smaller. LOL

As far as the heads being !#$ed up, just chalk up another one to Speed Demon. Seems they messed up again. I don't plan on doing anything to the bottom end. It still appears to be in decent shape. I've got one push rod that has the tip broke off as well. We're thinking everything was just tightened down to tight. I can't wait to see what kind of power I get with things properly put together.

 

The bolts that go into the rear of the heads are for the coolant crossover pipe. The bolts are hollow to allow the coolant to flow thru them. Buy new bolts and new gaskets. You'll find it's damn near impossible to get a wrench on them with the engine in the car. Just snug them down and they'll be fine.

The thing in the spring looks like the oil seal. It appears to be missing on one of the springs and in the wrong location on the other (i.e. it hadn't had time to disintegrate yet).

 

In other words it shouldn't take a 2 foot pipe on vise grips to get those bolts out!

My son and I had to take both heads off at the same time in order to get them to a location where we could try and get those bolts off. What a PITA!

I'm taking it those "oil seal" are suppose to be down around the base on the inside of the springs and not stuck to the tops of them acting like little hats?

 

It's possible that the valve that isn't closed all the way is bent. Is that the cylinder where the end of the pushrod was broken? If yes, check that piston surface real good for the valve striking it. If yes, you may want to check more of the engine/piston/rod components to be sure they are ready for re-use. Have you over reved the engine a lot? How many mies on your valve springs? Good luck

 

No, shouldn't have been that difficult to get the bolts out. They are somewhat rounded as manufactured and that makes them hard to get a hold of. Having said that, if they've never been loosened before, then they may have been corroded a bit.

Yes, basically the seals fit down over the valve guide, not up around the top of the springs.

 

Bent or broken parts in a motor always say " please take me apart and check me out" it might seem cheaper to just do the heads but ask your self, where did the broken piece of push rod go? in the long run you will be better off pulling it all apart and checking for cracked pistons, bent rods, sratched up cyl. walls, worn mains, ect. everything needs cleaning. Oil pumps push little microscopic pieces of metal everywhere. I know that's not what you want to hear but you will be heart sick if you just do the heads and put it back together and it smokes and has low oil pressure or worse blows up.

 

I agree with this damage you should do a complete repair to be sure.

However,, You will notice there are no indications of valve hitting a piston or scratching of the cylinder bore. Given the compressions of the 7 remaining cylinders were up and oil consumption was reasonable. You will have to decide reasnonable. I think you could use new heads and be good to go. You might have a bent valve or broken spring. Don't know which from the pics. The item you see under the valve spring is the valve seal. It should have been pushed down fully to the valve guide on assembly of the engine. It won't walk up to it's position. My 99% opinion is it was never pushed down when the taper locks and valve springs were installed. Just poor attention to detail on the heads. With this I would question the entire repair. I have built heads and it is easy to leave the valve seal up as in this pic,, and careless. If I were you I might look at AR heads for new replacements. You might be able to do a valve job on your exisiting cores,,but you would need a professional shop vs who ever did your previous work. Good luck.. 99 Nassau Blue

 

Those are the valve stem seals which have rode up from their correct position. These would a source of your oil leaks.

 

Actually, in this case, that's easy. It was in the top of the rocker arm. The tip broke off.

 

I can see the oil seal is missing or has been forced up to the top of the spring. Oil seals do not normally fail in this manner, as they are normally lubed with some assembly grease/oil for initial fireup. I wonder when this occoured, did you notice any signs of oil consumption starting at a certain time? Is that the same valve that appears to have hit something? If so, they are probably related. Maybe the valve bent and caused the seal to become "cocked" on the guide, and the movement of the valve could have then pulled it upward and off.

How did the spark plug look on that cylinder?

Bob

 

Actually all the spark plugs look about the same now. Probably because it's been started up about a 1/2 dozen times just to move it around prior to the tear down. I have a feeling I have more problems than I was aware of. ALL of the oil seals are at the top! None of them are around the base as I'm told they are suppose to be. I've got 2 or 3 broken off and missing. Several that appear cracked. The valve that's stuck open, the seals are both at the top. The seal that is missing in that pic, I believe is also the same one that had the busted push rod.

I still don't see any signs of contact though. Could just the seals themselves being out of place cause a bent valve? Could it be the whole valve train was tightened down so tight that is caused all of this?

 

No, the seals are made of rubber and sometimes a teflon ring in the center. They would not be strong enough to cause a bent valve. I have never seen all seals pop loose, as they are simple to install and are a simple ring style clamp onto the guide. As far as too tight, I can't say for sure. Does it look like something is stuck between the valve and seat that is stuck open?

 

Nothing obvious. It appears the springs are okay.

 

Well Bob has the heads now. After initial inspection he's found the springs aren't what they should have been. They are extremely weak. I probably floated some valves causing two to actually hit the pistons and one to bend. (good news is the pistons seem to have survived)The valve seals were probably the wrong size from the beginning as they are way to big for the seats. Which is probably the reason they aren't where they are suppose to be now. I'm waiting for Bob to give me an update on the rest of the parts.

 

Hi Dave and everyone,

I did some more testing on his heads. They had single springs that were installed at 1.758" height. At that height, the springs produced 90 pounds of seat pressure. The damaged valve had the head literally bent to one side. As for the seals, I was able to see that the inside diameter of the seals was much larger than the outside diameter of the valve guides they are supposed to attach to. (the opposite of normal). Normally, the seals have a force fit to keep them on, via a metal band, which prevents their movement as it grips the guide tightly. Seals almost never "fall off" because they go on very tight, and I don't know of any seal that would get a larger inside diameter as time went on. They look to just be the wrong size to me.

I would agree it is very likley that the valves floated due to insufficent springs. It was most likley the cause of your impact with a piston, which bent the head of the valve.

All things considered, it could have been much worse. Your heads are still usable, and the pistons are OK. Plus now you'll have more power to play with!

Bob

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention your guide tops were not machined down. This would cause problems because the retainer will come down and hit the top of the valve guide. I did not get a chance to measure the retainer to guide top distance yet, but when I do I will let you know what cam lift you were able to safely run. I doubt it is very much because the guide top was at least .700" tall. We machine them down to allow for a decent (.500" +) lift cam to be run safely without the worry of the retainer bottoming out. I'll see if I can get that info on Monday but I'm prettttyy swamped.

Bob

 

As for the bolts on the steam pipe, yes they do fit a little loose and there is no particular direction they need to end up in. The bolts are Bajo bolts and will allow water flow in any direction. Youwill need four gaskets and make sure, if you havent already, to get the old gaskets off the heads.

 

also those are umbrella seals..thet dont fit tight around the guide on the lt1s and where not designed to....there are also some little black o-ring seals that go in a grove bellow the where the keepers lock on the valve stem..