The car was running fine for a few weeks, and then one day got up to go to work and turned the key and the car would not start. Just kept on trying to turn over. A little perplexed, I hit the gas peddle and it started, but it idled very rough for about 30 seconds and I could smell lots of gas.
I can turn the car back off and then if I crank it with in 15 - 30 min, it will crank right back up with no problems. If it sits for a few hours, then its back to the long crank.

First thing I did was add a fuel pressure gauge to check to see if the fuel pump was delivering the fuel when I turned the key to ACC. Gauge read 45 on ACC and 42 while driving.
Checked all the resistance across all the injectors All of them were .16
Unplugged 9th injector just incase it was spraying when it didnt need too.

Did a test the other night and unplugged one of the hoses that go into the head. (the one of the drivers side that goes into the valve cover, cant think of what its called right now). And the car started right up. No hesitation no nothing. Could still smell a bit of fuel in the exhaust, but not nearly has heavy as before. Plugged it back in and tried again later and went back to the long start time.
Unplugged it right then, and it started right up.
I am going to replace the fuel pump this weekend, just because I have a new one anyway, but I dont know what else it could be.

IAC = new
TPS = new

No codes, no nothing.

I am pretty sure its a fuel problem of maybe running to rich since when it gets air (metered or unmetered) it starts up.

Any thoughts?

 

hook up gauge, turn on key, remove vacuum line to fuel pressure regulator. if gas is spraying out, there is your culpret.

also, check the injectors... one or more could be stuck open.

To confirm this, try to start the car, and then remove the plugs. if one or 2 smell REALLY gassy, you have a problem.

Also, check spark... but usually, spark goes bad with heat (as the coil heats up).

 

Oh, forgot to add. FPR is new also. (as the old one was leaking gas)
This one is operating correctly.

Wouldnt testing resistance across the injectors verify their working or not?

 

What you unplugged was the PCV or Pollution Control Valve. It has a signficant effect on my 88 when it is unplugged. Sounds like yours is bad. Go to NAPA or PepBoys or Kragen (in that order) and get a new PCV valve. Should be cheap and solve your problem.

 

PCV-positive crankcase ventilation

 

Make sure you get an AC Delco PCV valve, for whatever reason these motors don't like aftermarket PCV's. I have found out the hard way on two previous cars by blowing the dipstick tube out!!!.

 

Well, replaced the PCV this weekend and the same problem exists.

When the car didnt start I pulled the hose from the head (or intake, what ever its connected to) and started the car. Then I got back up and plugged the hose in while the car was running. This caused the car to stall and die. Im thinking something has put the car into an overly rich situation.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks

 

bump...

If the IAC was not opening up on ACC would that cause the problem?

 

IAC - Idle Air Control... it won't effect the immediate starting. What it would do, if bad, is make it stall right after starting.

What you can do is get a can of throttle body cleaner and spray the IAC port. Remove the air inlet tube and look at the lower center of the TB. There is a kind triangle shape there with a big hole. That's the IAC hole. Spray TB cleaner into that hole and let it flush the gook out.

See if that helps. Also, clean the butterflies.

I have to suggest, you MUST get a helm manual - www.helminc.com. If you don't you will be guessing about a fix... where the book will tell you exactly what to test for.

 

I stand corrected. While it was designed for pollution control, the proper term is positive crankcase ventilitation valve. Thanks for catching my error.

bogus is right, the Factory Service manual (FSM) is the way to go.
The 88 FSM has several things it suggests that you check under Section B "Hard Start" (page 6E3-B-2).

The first suggestion is to check is the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) voltage. "... with the throttle closed (should read less than .700 volts)." Generally should be at 0.54 volts plus/minus .08 volts at closed throttle.
Also suggested to check the MAF by disconnecting wiring connection.
Another suggestion is to open the distributor bypass line. If the engine starts and runs ok the pickup coil should be replaced.

My guess is that you are correct about the rich condition and the extra air allowed into the engine when you have the PCV valve disconnected is leaning it out enough allow it to run. Possibly a bad or stuck injector. The FSM suggests checking the injector fuses and all vacuum lines for air leaks.

The FSM suggests to check for a "High resistance in the coolant sensor circuit, or the sensor itself." At 70F the sensor resistance should be approx. 3,400 ohms and at 100F it should be approx. 1,800 ohms. If it is outside that range it may be giving a false reading to the ECM when the engine is cold. The ECM might then be using incorrect values for the starting sequence and running way too rich. Even with the CSV disconnected, the ECM could be improperly adjusting timing and pulse width for the other 8 injectors based upon the false coolant temp it is reading.

How long did it take for the pressure to drop once you turned the engine off? A stuck injector would bleed off pressure abnormally fast.

 

Voltage is good.

Wouldnt checking the resistance across the injector tell me if it is stuck or not?

This was my next guess. I will be checking this sometime this week. (cisco tests > car)

About 10 minutes after I turn off the car the pressure drops to about 30 and stays there for a few hours until it finally drops to 0. It does it slowly. I think this is going to be my Fuel Pump.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Will keep every one updated.