560 or 595 Lift
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 239
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From: Toronto Ontario
560 or 595 Lift
FLOW #s 195cc head at .55 262cfm 280cfm CNC
Using a ZZ409 camshaft with a 1.6 gives me 560 lift and with a 1.7 595 lift which rocker should I go with my set up
383, Callies forged steel stroker crank, 6" Oliver rods, SRP Pistons, Arp Studs, TPIS ZZ-409 cam, AFR/TPiS alum heads,1.5 Roller Rockers, 7 qt.oil pan,10.5:1 C.R., MiniramII, 58mm TB, TPIS Coated Header, 24lb FR injectors,Stuart Hi Vol. water pump TPIS level V prom,3.54 gears,Flowmaster catback, auto
Using a ZZ409 camshaft with a 1.6 gives me 560 lift and with a 1.7 595 lift which rocker should I go with my set up
383, Callies forged steel stroker crank, 6" Oliver rods, SRP Pistons, Arp Studs, TPIS ZZ-409 cam, AFR/TPiS alum heads,1.5 Roller Rockers, 7 qt.oil pan,10.5:1 C.R., MiniramII, 58mm TB, TPIS Coated Header, 24lb FR injectors,Stuart Hi Vol. water pump TPIS level V prom,3.54 gears,Flowmaster catback, auto
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,484
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From: Everyday you must choose between the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. Fredericktown, OH
In your position, I would call comp cams or another cam company and give them your specs and be very honest with them about your goals for the car. Meaning, do you street it 90% of the time or race it 90% of the time. They will recommend a cam for your needs.
I've done this with several 406s I've done and been very pleased with the out put and results.
There are many very knowledgeable people on the forum and you'll get some great advice - but you will get several different opinions based on what each person thinks is more important - low end torque, peak HP, driveablity, race-only, etc.
Good luck. Sounds like a nice motor.
I've done this with several 406s I've done and been very pleased with the out put and results.
There are many very knowledgeable people on the forum and you'll get some great advice - but you will get several different opinions based on what each person thinks is more important - low end torque, peak HP, driveablity, race-only, etc.
Good luck. Sounds like a nice motor.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Everyday you must choose between the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. Fredericktown, OH
Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
Don't be surprised if they recommend a smaller cam thanyou think you want. Bigger isn't always better (sounds good, though 
)
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Toronto Ontario
From what I have seen, more lift is almost always better.
However, TPIS doesn't seem to always agree. They usually recommend 1.5 rockers. Not sure why. Better valvetrain stability I suppose.
You got nothing to lose (but money) by giving 1.6 or even 1.7 a try. Just make sure your valvetrain components are up to the task.
However, TPIS doesn't seem to always agree. They usually recommend 1.5 rockers. Not sure why. Better valvetrain stability I suppose.
You got nothing to lose (but money) by giving 1.6 or even 1.7 a try. Just make sure your valvetrain components are up to the task.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Everyday you must choose between the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. Fredericktown, OH
Originally Posted by aqualung
From what I have seen, more lift is almost always better.
You can't just toss a big cam in a car and expect it to perform better. The entire combination must be matched or you'll sacrifice performance and driveability.
When I bracket raced, I did play around with 3 cams in one of the 406s I had. The bigger of the three made less power than the middle one. And the smaller of the three actually made more torque.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,951
Likes: 3
From: Mount Vernon OH
Originally Posted by aqualung
From what I have seen, more lift is almost always better.
However, TPIS doesn't seem to always agree. They usually recommend 1.5 rockers. Not sure why. Better valvetrain stability I suppose.
You got nothing to lose (but money) by giving 1.6 or even 1.7 a try. Just make sure your valvetrain components are up to the task.
However, TPIS doesn't seem to always agree. They usually recommend 1.5 rockers. Not sure why. Better valvetrain stability I suppose.
You got nothing to lose (but money) by giving 1.6 or even 1.7 a try. Just make sure your valvetrain components are up to the task.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 844
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From: Cape Cod Ma
I have the same top end as you on a 350 forged internals i have the tpis zz9x cam with the 1.5 rr. Dosent kick in at about 3K rpm's but its a kick from there till 6.5K rpms. Not very easy to drive in stop and go trafic but its ok. I have a maual tranny
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Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Toronto Ontario
Originally Posted by LT-4 CE
I have to disagree. An engine is a combination of a number of pieces that must work together well in order to achieve peak efficiency (performance). Cam lift is very much contingent upon cylinder head capability, compression, purpose of the car, intake and carb or injection limitations, torque converter, etc.
You can't just toss a big cam in a car and expect it to perform better. The entire combination must be matched or you'll sacrifice performance and driveability.
When I bracket raced, I did play around with 3 cams in one of the 406s I had. The bigger of the three made less power than the middle one. And the smaller of the three actually made more torque.
You can't just toss a big cam in a car and expect it to perform better. The entire combination must be matched or you'll sacrifice performance and driveability.
When I bracket raced, I did play around with 3 cams in one of the 406s I had. The bigger of the three made less power than the middle one. And the smaller of the three actually made more torque.
Just look at your flowsheet. Do your heads flow better at .595 lift or .560 lift?
If you have 2 cams with the same duration, the .595 lift cam will most likely make more horsepower than the .560 lift cam. That's all I am saying.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,484
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From: Everyday you must choose between the pain of discipline and the pain of regret. Fredericktown, OH
Originally Posted by aqualung
If you have 2 cams with the same duration, the .595 lift cam will most likely make more horsepower than the .560 lift cam. That's all I am saying.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 239
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From: Toronto Ontario
TPIS web site
with a 1.5 rocker ZZ-409 Hyd Roller:
Adv. duration 287/287, duration @.050 226/226, Lift .520/.520. 112 LSA.
looking at my flow sheet I think I should go with 1.6 rockers which would put me at 554 lift. 1.7 would put me at 589 lift which I would gain on exhaust but loose on my intake
with a 1.5 rocker ZZ-409 Hyd Roller:
Adv. duration 287/287, duration @.050 226/226, Lift .520/.520. 112 LSA.
looking at my flow sheet I think I should go with 1.6 rockers which would put me at 554 lift. 1.7 would put me at 589 lift which I would gain on exhaust but loose on my intake
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 1
From: Santa Maria CA
Originally Posted by 88BlackZ-51
1.6's it is then........i personally think 1.7's are too much man.
might look cool on a spec sheet as to what a motor has but i think 1.6's are the way to go.coil bind might be an issue with what ever spings you have so i'd check to see before buying 1.7's.what ever your choice is
and go faster!
Advanced
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 77
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From: Poquoson VA
Originally Posted by Pete K
I usually overlift the valve by .030 above the max flow number. Works well for me.
,why because if you get a cam that has lift higher than where your best flow is,you actually see the better flow numbers longer.Why,because if you have a 580 lift cam,it is only at max lift for a very short time,were as it is at the lower lifts while the lifter is on the way up and again on its way back down.Therefore the dwell time at best flow rate is extended.This is of course if you are trying to squeeze all available power from your motor,just because this thnking makes power,doesn't mean you will like the manners of the engine.I have always been of the thinking,select the cam you think you want,then buy the next smallest one!Good Luck,
Duane Hawley
