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Heel\Toe driving...

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Old Jul 24, 2005 | 09:31 PM
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From: St. Peters MO Sometimes you have to prove yourself by doing alot of killing or alot of dying...
Default Heel\Toe driving...

http://www.rev-mag.com/RevDriver/driver1.sht

How to Heel and Toe down shift
Words and Photos: Marcus

The first thing is what is heel and toe down shifting? In its most basic form, it is applying both the brake pedal and the gas pedal at the same time. The second thing is why would you want to do that? Well when driving a car near the limits of it's tires grip, unsettling the car can cause it's tires to loose traction completely and slip. In addition to that you get braking help from the engine. You will be in the correct gear for leaving the corner as quickly as possible. You will also impress your friends if you do it correctly. But most importantly it sounds really cool. Okay, now that I've got your attention, here is how you do it. Well actually here is one way how to do it. (the second way I will cover in the next issue.) The first thing you should check is that the brake pedal is an inch or so closer to you than the gas pedal. Now I know that many auto makers do not make it easy for you to heel and toe, so if your stock pedal placement is not right for this method of heel and toeing than you will have to check back next issue. By the way, when I bought my car, my pedals were not set up to heal toe this way. So I had my mechanic bend the brake pedal over so I could. I am not telling you to modify your brake pedal because if I did you could try and sue me if you got in an accident SO DON'T DO IT. Getting back to it.

Okay here is the scenario, your running along in fifth gear and a tight second gear corner is approaching. When you put your foot on the brake pedal place it on the right half only. You might have to twist your ankle so that you don't hit the gas pedal at the same time. Because when you press the brake, it goes down doesn't it? Once you have scrubbed off enough speed to switch to fourth gear, put the clutch pedal in and pull the shifter out of fifth this is all while your foot is on the right half of the brake don't forget. You should always be slowing down at the same constant rate. Once the shift lever is out of fifth, rotate your right ankle so that the right side of your right foot presses the gas pedal enough to rev up the engine to the correct RPM (do this with a hard stab of the throttle). This depends on your car and the speed you are going (it might take some trial and error for you to know the correct RPM shift point.) Side Bar: Cars with light flywheels that rev up quickly are easier to heel & toe. Once the correct RPM is reached shift into 4th and release the clutch. If you do this properly, your passenger will not feel you shifting they will only hear it. When you are really good you will be able to heel & toe down shift through all of the gears in your transmission including first all perfectly smooth. The best place to practice this is coming off the freeway where there is a stop sign at the end of the ramp. Next time I will teach you how to double clutch heel toe down shift.



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Old Jul 24, 2005 | 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kwik_ta
http://www.rev-mag.com/RevDriver/driver1.sht

How to Heel and Toe down shift
Words and Photos: Marcus

The first thing is what is heel and toe down shifting? In its most basic form, it is applying both the brake pedal and the gas pedal at the same time. The second thing is why would you want to do that? Well when driving a car near the limits of it's tires grip, unsettling the car can cause it's tires to loose traction completely and slip. In addition to that you get braking help from the engine. You will be in the correct gear for leaving the corner as quickly as possible. You will also impress your friends if you do it correctly. But most importantly it sounds really cool. Okay, now that I've got your attention, here is how you do it. Well actually here is one way how to do it. (the second way I will cover in the next issue.) The first thing you should check is that the brake pedal is an inch or so closer to you than the gas pedal. Now I know that many auto makers do not make it easy for you to heel and toe, so if your stock pedal placement is not right for this method of heel and toeing than you will have to check back next issue. By the way, when I bought my car, my pedals were not set up to heal toe this way. So I had my mechanic bend the brake pedal over so I could. I am not telling you to modify your brake pedal because if I did you could try and sue me if you got in an accident SO DON'T DO IT. Getting back to it.

Okay here is the scenario, your running along in fifth gear and a tight second gear corner is approaching. When you put your foot on the brake pedal place it on the right half only. You might have to twist your ankle so that you don't hit the gas pedal at the same time. Because when you press the brake, it goes down doesn't it? Once you have scrubbed off enough speed to switch to fourth gear, put the clutch pedal in and pull the shifter out of fifth this is all while your foot is on the right half of the brake don't forget. You should always be slowing down at the same constant rate. Once the shift lever is out of fifth, rotate your right ankle so that the right side of your right foot presses the gas pedal enough to rev up the engine to the correct RPM (do this with a hard stab of the throttle). This depends on your car and the speed you are going (it might take some trial and error for you to know the correct RPM shift point.) Side Bar: Cars with light flywheels that rev up quickly are easier to heel & toe. Once the correct RPM is reached shift into 4th and release the clutch. If you do this properly, your passenger will not feel you shifting they will only hear it. When you are really good you will be able to heel & toe down shift through all of the gears in your transmission including first all perfectly smooth. The best place to practice this is coming off the freeway where there is a stop sign at the end of the ramp. Next time I will teach you how to double clutch heel toe down shift.



DISCUSS
Heel-toe is great for auto-cross and road racing. However, the pedals really aren't spaced right in a C4 to accomplish it properly...and I'm not aware of any adjustable pedals to make it possible. I have size 13 boots and I can barely work it right! But give me a car with properly placed pedals and I can do it all day long!
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Old Jul 24, 2005 | 11:11 PM
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I have been curious about this myself. It will soon be my first time auto-x a manual. I use to hear all the time about how much easier it was to control a manual in the corners than an automatic. So far, I tend to agree in that putting your foot through the firewall to get the automatic to kickdown was annoying (and time costly).

I did something similar to what the author describes last week on a steep hill (we dont have shortages of these in the SF bay area!). I let out on the clutch and gave a little gas while my foot was on the brake. When I felt the clutch "hold", I let off the brake and pushed in on the gas. Car didnt peel out nor did it roll back. I may never repeat that but at least I know I am capable of it.

My main issue with downshifting is hitting the right RPM for the speed I am at. I guess all that will come in time. If anyone has more to add about shifting, please share it. My clutch will thank you.
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Zix
However, the pedals really aren't spaced right in a C4 to accomplish it properly
They are a pain. However PerformanceNut, in an auto-x you will be 99% of the time in 2nd gear. And unless you get into a VERY slow hairpin 180+ turn you won't want to waste the time shifting for the acceleration difference. Thus, you can just master left foot braking and get the same effect. This only really screws you for DE's and such when you actually need to shift!
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kwik_ta
http://www.rev-mag.com/RevDriver/driver1.sht

The first thing is what is heel and toe down shifting? In its most basic form, it is applying both the brake pedal and the gas pedal at the same time. The second thing is why would you want to do that? Well when driving a car near the limits of it's tires grip, unsettling the car can cause it's tires to loose traction completely and slip. In addition to that you get braking help from the engine.


Heal-Toe has one purpose in road racing....speeding up downshifts and saving the transmission. It has nothing to do with tire grip. All you're doing is clutching, roll your foot to the throttle to blib it which speed matches the engine to the transmission of the next lower gear. This allows the transmission to lock into the next lower gear (and driver release the clutch) quicker without adding sudden drag to the rear wheels. Have you ever watched Boris Said's foot-cam in a Nextel Cup road race?
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 10:48 AM
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I beg to differ here. If you are coming into a slow corner at the end of a straight - and you downshift under hard braking the engine will have low RPM - while the wheels still have lots of speed - when you let out the clutch, engine braking will cause the tires to skid - and you to get squirrley - in a big hurry - can cause looping and all sorts of dirty underwear. Heel and toeing properly matches engine RPM to car speed - saves lots of wear and tear on the tranny and the rear end and is MUCH quicker around most road courses.

Carl Johansson

OOPS - I think I responded to the wrong guy - sorry atok - looks like we are on the same page here

Originally Posted by Atok


Heal-Toe has one purpose in road racing....speeding up downshifts and saving the transmission. It has nothing to do with tire grip. All you're doing is clutching, roll your foot to the throttle to blib it which speed matches the engine to the transmission of the next lower gear. This allows the transmission to lock into the next lower gear (and driver release the clutch) quicker without adding sudden drag to the rear wheels. Have you ever watched Boris Said's foot-cam in a Nextel Cup road race?
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Johansson
OOPS - I think I responded to the wrong guy - sorry atok - looks like we are on the same page here
and thank you Carl for the explanation... I was trying to figure out why heel - toe was that important. I've done a different heel - toe driving before, but not for that outcome... When I read the article, I was confused on the reason for this type of driving style. Is it as simple as coming up on a corner, dropping to what every gear you will exit the corner, once slowed... jab the throttle and release quickly and pop off the clutch???
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kwik_ta
and thank you Carl for the explanation... I was trying to figure out why heel - toe was that important. I've done a different heel - toe driving before, but not for that outcome... When I read the article, I was confused on the reason for this type of driving style. Is it as simple as coming up on a corner, dropping to what every gear you will exit the corner, once slowed... jab the throttle and release quickly and pop off the clutch???
You actually want to be slowed and in the correct gear (and off the clutch) for exiting the corner before you turn in. If you let out the clutch through the corner - the tires will grab and upset the handling - and you do quite a bit of steering with the throttle - so you need power applied throughout the corner. Essentially it's slow into the corner - then accellerate throughout the corner and exit fast - so you need to be properly geared and power on going into the corner.

rereading your question I think thats what you ment - I'm just making sure you understand that the process is
Brake on - clutch in - Roll or blip the throttle - usually while completing the down shift - clutch out - Then turn in the corner.

If done right It really helps the car - and makes the corners fun instead of an adventure in correction overcorrection and skidding. First time you hit it - you'll smile - big time - and understand. it's really smooth - and makes the corners fast and fun.

I taught myself to do it on the streets - just everytime I drove I practiced. At the racing schools they make you do an hour a day - on the straight away - get up to high speed and gear - then seqentially slow down by heel and toe downshifting through each gear - back and forth - along the straight, heel and toe - 1 hour every day.

Carl Johansson
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 03:37 PM
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Has someone already said this, I haven't read the entire thread closely?

Heel and toe driving is actually a slight error in both description and terms. You're actually toe and toeing the brake and accelerator pedal. When I read "blipping" and "rolling off", this is accomplished in almost all situations and cars with the right foot pad just below the toes being partially on the brake pedal and rolling and/or partially on the acceleratior pedal. And this action slips more one way or the other depending on which pedal you need to be pressing more. As you come out of a curve, you're on the gas, your foot pad is more on the accelerator pedal.
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LT4CompYell
Heel and toe driving is actually a slight error in both description and terms. You're actually toe and toeing the brake and accelerator pedal. .
Years ago, the accepted method was to keep the ball of your right foot on the brake, then rotate your ankle over so that the HEEL of your right foot was over the throttle and use the heel to stab the gas.
That's where the original term came from.
It was very tiring after awhile, and not as precise as "toe and toeing".

I agree with Zix, the brake pedal is not properly positioned in our C4's for this maneuver....it's too high, for one thing.

Larry
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Old Jul 25, 2005 | 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Performance nut
I did something similar to what the author describes last week on a steep hill (we dont have shortages of these in the SF bay area!). I let out on the clutch and gave a little gas while my foot was on the brake. When I felt the clutch "hold", I let off the brake and pushed in on the gas. Car didnt peel out nor did it roll back. I may never repeat that but at least I know I am capable of it.

My main issue with downshifting is hitting the right RPM for the speed I am at. I guess all that will come in time. If anyone has more to add about shifting, please share it. My clutch will thank you.
Performance Nut, just a suggestion here, since you asked... If you are holding your car's position on an uphill grade by keeping the clutch pedal only partially out, you may be reducing your clutch's life span. And maybe I misunderstood what you meant. But if I did understand you...it is clutch friction that is holding your car in place while doing this. The flywheel is turning, while at the same time the clutch disk is being pressed against it *just* enough to create enough moving friction to keep you sitting there. So if I'm not mistaken, this is kinda the same effect as riding the clutch while cruising along. I'm not an expert on how long a clutch will last doing this, but just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. And I'm pretty sure that someone WILL correct me if I'm wrong!!! Cheers,
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Old Jul 26, 2005 | 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy
Performance Nut, just a suggestion here, since you asked... If you are holding your car's position on an uphill grade by keeping the clutch pedal only partially out, you may be reducing your clutch's life span. And maybe I misunderstood what you meant. But if I did understand you...it is clutch friction that is holding your car in place while doing this. The flywheel is turning, while at the same time the clutch disk is being pressed against it *just* enough to create enough moving friction to keep you sitting there. So if I'm not mistaken, this is kinda the same effect as riding the clutch while cruising along. I'm not an expert on how long a clutch will last doing this, but just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. And I'm pretty sure that someone WILL correct me if I'm wrong!!! Cheers,
No worries. I am certain that it isnt great for the clutch but I held it there just long enough to get the car moving, which meant I had to get my foot of the brake. Someone said to try and use the parking brake on an incline but it doesnt seem to work for me. Either I am doing it wrong or it just was not meant to be.
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Old Jul 26, 2005 | 06:13 AM
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Perf Nut, with all due respect, practice. I've seen an awful lot of peop in your city do the parking brake. Sliding slowly from that to gas on is one way to save your clutch. And from what I understand, your clutch will not be "painless" when it comes time to replace it. Consider it a bit more challenging than finding the right rpm to downshift to. Instead of coordinating two feet and engine rpms, you've got to coord. two feet, your left arm and the engine rpms. But it can be done. And as you say, your clutch will thank you (so will your wallet, that is, if it likes being fat)
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Old Jul 26, 2005 | 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LT4CompYell
Perf Nut, with all due respect, practice. I've seen an awful lot of peop in your city do the parking brake. Sliding slowly from that to gas on is one way to save your clutch. And from what I understand, your clutch will not be "painless" when it comes time to replace it. Consider it a bit more challenging than finding the right rpm to downshift to. Instead of coordinating two feet and engine rpms, you've got to coord. two feet, your left arm and the engine rpms. But it can be done. And as you say, your clutch will thank you (so will your wallet, that is, if it likes being fat)
List of things to do...

#5: Learn how to use parking brake on incline.
...
#11: Learn right RPM to downshift to.
...
#14: Install parts accumulating in garage.

That should keep me busy.
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Old Jul 26, 2005 | 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Performance nut
No worries. I am certain that it isnt great for the clutch but I held it there just long enough to get the car moving, which meant I had to get my foot of the brake. Someone said to try and use the parking brake on an incline but it doesnt seem to work for me. Either I am doing it wrong or it just was not meant to be.
Not only are you destroying your clutch by doing that, you are probably going to glaze and heat check your flywheel. You'll end up with bad clutch chatter and need a flywheel replacement. You need to learn to use the park brake for steep hills.

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Old Jul 26, 2005 | 04:19 PM
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I made a 1/4 in thk Al plate and bolted it to the stock gas pedal that allows me to use the brake and blip the throttle for road courses. It's workable, but not as good as some other cars that are designed for it.
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