HJV11

As some of you know I have a 94 M6 with a 383 and a single T6 turbo. I currently use LT1 edit and a 2 bar MAP and have taken the high energy out of the opti using the Delteq waste spark system.
I have decided to purchase a stand-alone system this winter and am collecting opinions on a few things. First is simple, should I stick to "plug and play" systems or convert to a traditional distributor or a crank trigger. Second is this, I am leaning to words either the new XFI from F.A.S.T. or the Big Stuff 3. Anyone got another recommendations?


TIA
-RJ

Bruce

RJ
I almost wanna buy Big3 stuff for my car. After much reaearch Rick I decided on mega squirt for our specific need, this case is mainly for fueling.

I vote for the big3 stuff is it cost. Last time I check were $1900 that come with all the wiring plug N play ready and capable to control boost pressure and come with WBO2

DFI/FAST both are required the damn $500+ for plug N play wiring harness and both can not control boost pressure? and $900 optional WBO2

No opinon on the XFI. don't much about them, but I heard of it.

Bruce

RonRed89

I have a FAST on mine and love it. The key word with this thing is that it's really easy to tune. I have a NA 396 in my car with a fairly large cam for the street and with FAST it drives like a stocker with all accessories.

The XFI adds some really nice features over the system that I have, namely boost control, A/C clutch input (to bump up your idle when AC is activated and shut down AC at WOT), TCC lockup control (not a factor in your application), better on board diags, more inputs, some self-tuning, and more.

You won't have to switch from your optispark to a conventional distributor unless you want to. Both BS3 and XFI will be compatible with the Opti.

I would try and get a copy of the software for both of the systems and see which mix of hardware features along with software features that you like and think that you'll be better able to use.

From a piggyback standpoint, I can't comment too much here. I am running a Fast Track performance harness on my FAST and it's a wonderful piece of work. The whole digi-dash functions without issue and acts as if it were totally stock. At $700 it's not a cheap solution, but it does work. Not sure of the specifics around what harnesses are available on the LTx side, but you'll have to consider this in your overall costs.

If you have other specific questions, please feel free to ask.

Ron

mn_vette

I'm running an Accel DFI Gen 7 and its great. I've got the Fast Track piggy back harness as well and it does just fine. I'm not sure you really need a piggy back harness except to put in the tach signal. I don't think Mac is making the harness any longer though, just selling the premade one from accel. Its easy to mess with, software is great, tech support is usually pretty good and on top of things too.

I just recently switch over to running a rear mount distributor and trashed the opti. Accel makes their own distributor that works with the Gen7 and has a cam and crank sensor built into it. It allows me to run sequential fuel injection. No box upgrade needed, FAST needs a box upgrade to do sequential.

I think the fast and the accel systems are pretty close, I don't really know much about the other ones though. I'm also not sure how the delteq system would integrate into the stand alone. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to figure out though.

RonRed89

I think that you wire it in using the same methods you'd use if you had an MSD box. FAST calls it Inductive Pickup. Not sure what ACCEL calls it.

Ron

vailvette

AEM makes a (somewhat) universal system, used an aem standalone system on my last toy and it was quite impressive / versatile...

also, Haltech has various systems that I think would interest you.

you said you use LT1 edit, what is that?

bogor

Some more options:

Autronic www.autronic.com, about the same price as Accell gen VII.

If you are on low budget, VEMS might be an alternative:
www.vems-group.org/products.html

HJV11

Thanks for all the opinions and suggestions guys.
RonRed89, that is a good idea about getting a copy of the software and playing with it prior to making a choice. Being FI I really want to make sure I get a hot ignition system that is reliable. A friend of mine loves the AEM setup so I have not pulled that off the table yet as well.

Baldturbofreak

Don't forget good 'ol electromotive Tec 3. It will run your northstar pack. 4 coils have a better charge at high rpm then 1.

Brand-X

I use the Accell Gen VII+ w/WBO2 and Fastrackperformance wiring harness splice....no complaints

RonRed89

Once you get it hooked up, the software is going to be the piece that you'll have to regularly interact with.

As for AEM, their stuff looks pretty impressive, but their claim to fame is the plug and play ECU which essentially replaces your stock ECU altogether. Given the multitude of auxillary systems in the LTx car (CCM, PCM etc..), I don't know how feasible it would be to wire up this ECU (when compared with the more popular Accel or FAST products). Personally, a stock appearance was very important to me which is why I went with the FastTrack solution for full guage functionality. Your priorities may be different.

Another thing to keep in mind is that unless you're planning on tuning this all yourself, that you may want to stick with a system that offers both good vendor support and internet forum advice. This is where the most popular systems such as FAST and Accel shine.

Good luck,

Ron

vailvette

at what point does the stock system begin to resist mods?

that said at what point do these systems mentioned become "outgrown"

TurboFreak, don't you run insane #'s ? I'm sure you didn't do it all at once... Tell us about the evolution of yours? what is Electromotive Tec 3, and have you always used this?

BAM92

http://www.whiteracing.com/ these guys have plug n play harness's as well. I just bought one from a fellow member with a FAST system. Click on plug n play for upgrades and pricing.

Baldturbofreak

So far I have used the stock maf, force fed (after turbo) with all injector constants, cyl voulme, Maf tables, 2 bar map sensor and what not. I never reached the stock limits of the system, just the stock short block. This time I 'm using the mega squirt in fuel only mode to control the Methanol side(the dark side , hehe )
I dont run the tec 3 on my car. Electromotive is one of the high end systems availible that will run coilpacks.

HJV11, I would just keep the stock system in place, this time with a 3 or 4 bar map sensor (depending on how wild your going) for ignition only that way it's integration in the car's sytems remains uninterrupted.
The MS2 is out and has a bunch of new features but the regular megasquirt with the version 3 board will run lots 'o low impediance injectors with wideband feedback. it has 12x12 Ve tables and you get to program what the bin loactions are (The problem we were discussing via PM) it also has 8x8 Air/fuel tables. there are so many operating systems for it. bank to bank, staged injectors.
it will save you BIG$$$$$ you can use on more goodies.

lawrencespenser

Dont Waste Your Money Use The Stock Ecm And Put The 2000.00 Dollars In The Motor I Have A 1994 M6 With A 383 Afr Heads Crane Roller 222 230 On A 112 Stock Maf 42lb Svo Injectors No Fmu D1sc Procharger 6lbs Boost 508 Rwhp 527ftlb Dead Steady Idle Driveability Is Excellent Starts Faster Than Any Of My 5 Cars I Spent 550.00 Total On Software And Dyno Time Dont Waste Your Money

BrianCunningham

Another vote for the stock computer.

If you want to go aftermarket, I've used Haltech's ECU's, though not on the Vette.

They make one that plugs right in.

http://www.haltech.com/e6gmx.htm
They even have a Boost Control Solenoid
http://www.haltech.com/boost_ctrl_soln.htm

HJV11

lawrencespenser:
I would hardly call a stand alone a waste of money. Although I do agree the stock computer is a good unit and can be used in some boosted aplications I have reached its limits in my application. Using the tuning software available now you do not have access to any fuel tables below 20 KPA or spark tables below 25KPA, which are cells you will use if you go to a 2 bar MAP. That means with the stock system I am limited to 14.5PSI of boost with little control of idle fueling. Tuning for a SC application is totally different than tuning for a turbo.

Brain: Haltech makes a nice system but I do not believe that is a plug and play with the LT1. Most of these systems cannot read the cam postioning output generated by the LT1.
I quote from the HALTECH system specs "Ignition configuration - single distributor, direct fire(4,6,&8*) (using GM DFI modules only)

Baldturbofreak

The fuel I can help you with, but the cells for ignition, well your stuck. basically the lowest cell for it to interploate from would actually be around 70 kpa. Not real acceptable. If you don't mind the hardware change you could use a Ms&spark with ford edis. all you need is a 36-1 wheel. then you can get your money back out of the Delteq

BrianCunningham

Well the opti is a distributor, but point taken, I'd check with Haltech and see it it can recieve the signals.

bisrael

I believe the F.A.S.T. XFI will do Bank to Bank AND Sequential out of the box so to speak. The big advantage of the F.A.S.T. is that it is nearly universally understood and tunable by pro dyno tuner shops, or at least that's my impression from my own recent research.

I'll be putting an LS in my C3, and need to find a management system. For me it will either be the Stock ECM (from GM Performance Parts) with Painless LS Harness, or Delphi system on the "low" end of about $1,100 total, or XFI at about $2,500 with all the goodies and upgrade paths.

The other cool things about the XFI is that it has flashable firmware so updates can be downloaded from the internet, whereas many other systems have a ROM for firmware that has to be physically sent to you. The XFI also has storage for up to 4 programs that can be activated at anytime. I don't know the exact system, but I think it is something like engaging a switch, maybe jumpers, and then reboot your car.
This would allow you, without carrying a computer, to run around with different tunes (e.g., daily driver, strip, etc.)

Electromotive Tec3 is stunningly sophisticated, and in conjunction with their hi-res crank trigger system offers timing related tuning the other don't I suppose. However, the base system alone is as much as the XFi w/harness and tuning is apparently much more complicated.

Just my $.02