ok, 86 still wont start.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
From: JUPITER FLORIDA
ok, 86 still wont start.
Posted a thread a while ago because my vette wouldnt start and i still havent gotten the damn thing to start, heres where im at,
Cranks nice and loud, i can hear some combustion but never starts compeltely.
Altenator new =good
new battery = good
Good spark
distributor components tested and good.
Fuel pressure Is good, it holds when i crank the engine but then drops quickly when i stop ( i figure its a bad non return valve)
I checked fuel lines the best i could and they dont seem clogged.
Ok, im down to timing and heres my problem, i cannot turn the engine over by hand, i removed half the spark plugs and the timming belt and the damn thing wont even budge! what am i doing wrong? once i get this done i can at least see if my timing is correct.
I have turned the distributor a bit and tried to start it in different directions, nothing. ( I made sure i repositioned it to its former position when finished)
i flashed codes and got nothin but 12's on the computer.
People have gave me advice a while ago on the forum but i could not pull my thread back up for some reason. any advice would be greatly welcome!
Cranks nice and loud, i can hear some combustion but never starts compeltely.
Altenator new =good
new battery = good
Good spark
distributor components tested and good.
Fuel pressure Is good, it holds when i crank the engine but then drops quickly when i stop ( i figure its a bad non return valve)
I checked fuel lines the best i could and they dont seem clogged.
Ok, im down to timing and heres my problem, i cannot turn the engine over by hand, i removed half the spark plugs and the timming belt and the damn thing wont even budge! what am i doing wrong? once i get this done i can at least see if my timing is correct.
I have turned the distributor a bit and tried to start it in different directions, nothing. ( I made sure i repositioned it to its former position when finished)
i flashed codes and got nothin but 12's on the computer.
People have gave me advice a while ago on the forum but i could not pull my thread back up for some reason. any advice would be greatly welcome!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Engines need spark (and at the right time), gas and air (and in the correct ratio) in order to start and run. Use your timing light while cranking to see if the timing is correct. Unplug an injector and connect a noid light (available at parts stores) or a low power 12v lamp like a 194 side marker lamp across the injector socket and crank the engine. The lamp should pulse showing that the ECM is exercising the injectors. If your fuel pressure drops rapidly after the fuel pump shuts off, it could be due to one or more leaky injectors which flood the engine preventing it from starting. Crank the engine and pull a few plugs, are they wet? Or, smell the exhaust while someone cranks, smell way too rich fuel?
Remove the large hose on the MAF to ensure the engine is getting air, a clogged air filter will prevent starting.
Another thing you can try is to unplug the MAF and try starting, this shows a defective MAF. Do you have any stored error codes? What are they?
My money is on leaky injectors.
Remove the large hose on the MAF to ensure the engine is getting air, a clogged air filter will prevent starting.
Another thing you can try is to unplug the MAF and try starting, this shows a defective MAF. Do you have any stored error codes? What are they?
My money is on leaky injectors.
Last edited by jfb; Oct 25, 2005 at 12:42 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
well the above post said just about all there is and 
with the last sentence-leaky injectors! One thing I will add-I don't know how many times I've had a distributor out in my life-but I can tell you more than one time lol I've scratched my head just to discover I'd got it back in WRONG. I'd double check that first.
with the last sentence-leaky injectors! One thing I will add-I don't know how many times I've had a distributor out in my life-but I can tell you more than one time lol I've scratched my head just to discover I'd got it back in WRONG. I'd double check that first.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 772
Likes: 6
From: Huntsville AL
Got to say it.
There is no timing belt.
If you removed that - no wonder it won't run. 
Your talking about the serpentine belt that drives water pump, alternator, etc.. I assume when you say you removed the timing belt.
Make sure you have it in neutral while trying to turn the engine over.
Even with the spark plugs in - you should be able to turn the engine over by hand once you put it in neutral. If you can't - the starter can't.
Probably your timing out soo far it won't start but, remove the MAF sensor, open the throttle a little (not wide open but maybe 1/4) and try to crank. Next check the timing while someone cranks the engine over. Don't have to be running to set - just turning over and sparking.
There is no timing belt.
If you removed that - no wonder it won't run. Your talking about the serpentine belt that drives water pump, alternator, etc.. I assume when you say you removed the timing belt.Make sure you have it in neutral while trying to turn the engine over.
Even with the spark plugs in - you should be able to turn the engine over by hand once you put it in neutral. If you can't - the starter can't.
Probably your timing out soo far it won't start but, remove the MAF sensor, open the throttle a little (not wide open but maybe 1/4) and try to crank. Next check the timing while someone cranks the engine over. Don't have to be running to set - just turning over and sparking.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
From: JUPITER FLORIDA
Originally Posted by thomastl
Got to say it.
There is no timing belt. If you removed that - no wonder it won't run. Your talking about the serpentine belt that drives water pump, alternator, etc.. I assume when you say you removed the timing belt.
Make sure you have it in neutral while trying to turn the engine over.
Even with the spark plugs in - you should be able to turn the engine over by hand once you put it in neutral. If you can't - the starter can't.
Probably your timing out soo far it won't start but, remove the MAF sensor, open the throttle a little (not wide open but maybe 1/4) and try to crank. Next check the timing while someone cranks the engine over. Don't have to be running to set - just turning over and sparking.
There is no timing belt.
If you removed that - no wonder it won't run. Your talking about the serpentine belt that drives water pump, alternator, etc.. I assume when you say you removed the timing belt.Make sure you have it in neutral while trying to turn the engine over.
Even with the spark plugs in - you should be able to turn the engine over by hand once you put it in neutral. If you can't - the starter can't.
Probably your timing out soo far it won't start but, remove the MAF sensor, open the throttle a little (not wide open but maybe 1/4) and try to crank. Next check the timing while someone cranks the engine over. Don't have to be running to set - just turning over and sparking.
So what does that mean if i cant turn the engine over by hand?
Ive messed with the timing quite a bit, turning the dist. back and forth little by little i would assume i would eventually just hit a spot where it would run.
How much fuel would be on my spark plugs if the injector was leaky,because i looked and i saw little droplets on one. I wasnt sure if that was just because i was crankin the engine so much or if it could be leaking.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
From: JUPITER FLORIDA
ok heres an update
I opened the throttle a bit (1/4 of the way) and cranked the engine, it ran for about 5 seconds then died even with me playing with the gas pedal.
I checked my filter and all the ducting before the tb and no obstructions.
I then took out one of my spark plugs and it had fuel on it, not just little dropplets but it was moist with fuel. my exhaust even smelt like fuel.
Im now thinking its a leaky injector, but with all this cranking how much residual fuel would be in the cylnder if the timing was off and I kept turning the engine over?
Is there a way i can test the computer other than a paper clip in the aldl ?
ok i edited again becuase i finnaly got a couple codes out of it 33 and 34. this has to do with the maf. Ive tried disconnecting the maf so far and nothin. let me know if you guyts have any ideas.
I opened the throttle a bit (1/4 of the way) and cranked the engine, it ran for about 5 seconds then died even with me playing with the gas pedal.
I checked my filter and all the ducting before the tb and no obstructions.
I then took out one of my spark plugs and it had fuel on it, not just little dropplets but it was moist with fuel. my exhaust even smelt like fuel.
Im now thinking its a leaky injector, but with all this cranking how much residual fuel would be in the cylnder if the timing was off and I kept turning the engine over?
Is there a way i can test the computer other than a paper clip in the aldl ?
ok i edited again becuase i finnaly got a couple codes out of it 33 and 34. this has to do with the maf. Ive tried disconnecting the maf so far and nothin. let me know if you guyts have any ideas.
Last edited by cplonner; Oct 25, 2005 at 09:50 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
You have leaky injector(s)!!!!!try this-floor the pedal while your cranking-if it starts-then you know, because the computer will have put it in flood mode with the pedal depressed.Let me ask you this, when you reinstalled your distributor did you use a long screw driver to orient the oil pump shaft? Because I can gurantee you if you didn't your at least a tooth off.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
The symptoms are there, your engine is parading around with an immense sign......LEAKY INJECTORS, LEAKY INJECTORS, LEAKY INJECTORS.
You should never ever see liquid gasoline on your spark plugs when the injectors are working properly. GM had problems with leaky injectors in the first several years of C4's and they replaced them under warranty. You need to replace ALL of your injectors if you ever want to drive your 86 Corvette ever again!!!!!!!!!! Leaky injectors cannot be repaired they must be replaced. I had no trouble with injectors in my 87, but GM replaced them under warranty anyway.
The fact that your engine ran for a few seconds shows that your ECM and MAF are working and ok. Yes, you can connect a scanner to your ALDL connector and get data out of your ECM and also recover error codes, but your problem is your injectors, they are probably original and they are now leaking gasoline causing a mixture that is so rich that your engine CANNOT run !!!!!!!!!!!!
And when you get your new injectors installed, buy or borrow a timing light and set the initial timing so that it is correct. Wiggling the distributor around is not the way to set your timing.
You should never ever see liquid gasoline on your spark plugs when the injectors are working properly. GM had problems with leaky injectors in the first several years of C4's and they replaced them under warranty. You need to replace ALL of your injectors if you ever want to drive your 86 Corvette ever again!!!!!!!!!! Leaky injectors cannot be repaired they must be replaced. I had no trouble with injectors in my 87, but GM replaced them under warranty anyway.
The fact that your engine ran for a few seconds shows that your ECM and MAF are working and ok. Yes, you can connect a scanner to your ALDL connector and get data out of your ECM and also recover error codes, but your problem is your injectors, they are probably original and they are now leaking gasoline causing a mixture that is so rich that your engine CANNOT run !!!!!!!!!!!!
And when you get your new injectors installed, buy or borrow a timing light and set the initial timing so that it is correct. Wiggling the distributor around is not the way to set your timing.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
From: JUPITER FLORIDA
these injectors are not original they are used and tested 24lb injectors and my whole engine is rebuilt with 2000 miles on it right now.
I wanna make sure before i go throw a few hundred dollars down on somthing that im not 100% positive will fix it.
why is it throwing a maf codes like 33 and 34?
I now can get it to run when i hold the pedal down a bit. so you guys are more likely right.
I wanna make sure before i go throw a few hundred dollars down on somthing that im not 100% positive will fix it.
why is it throwing a maf codes like 33 and 34?
I now can get it to run when i hold the pedal down a bit. so you guys are more likely right.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 54,124
Likes: 30
From: Cincinnati, Oh USA
Don't remember who (some member will likely post who it is), but a CFer tests and cleans injectors. Send them to him and get confirmation that you have defective injector/s. THEN buy NEW injectors!
Also, don't bother holding the throttle wide open when cranking because all that does is tell the ECM to not pulse the injectors and your injectors are leaking liquid gasoline all the time, pulsed or not!!!!
Also, don't bother holding the throttle wide open when cranking because all that does is tell the ECM to not pulse the injectors and your injectors are leaking liquid gasoline all the time, pulsed or not!!!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 772
Likes: 6
From: Huntsville AL
I would suggest:
1. Get your timing set back to 6 degrees using a timing light and just cranking it over.
2. If it still won't run ok w/ a little gas -
Remove the injectors and clean in a $10.00 gallon of carb cleaner. Just let them set for about 2 hours in the cleaner (remove the o-rings first). Rinse w/ water and dry good.
Reinstall and see what happens now. Actually before you push the fuel rail/injectors back into the intake, you can hook the fuel up, turn the key on and see if fuel is running out of them. If not - no leak.
Your plugs may very well be wet due to all the cranking and unburnt fuel.
1. Get your timing set back to 6 degrees using a timing light and just cranking it over.
2. If it still won't run ok w/ a little gas -
Remove the injectors and clean in a $10.00 gallon of carb cleaner. Just let them set for about 2 hours in the cleaner (remove the o-rings first). Rinse w/ water and dry good.
Reinstall and see what happens now. Actually before you push the fuel rail/injectors back into the intake, you can hook the fuel up, turn the key on and see if fuel is running out of them. If not - no leak.
Your plugs may very well be wet due to all the cranking and unburnt fuel.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
From: JUPITER FLORIDA
Ok guys the car is up and running.
It turned out it was the msd...... dont ask.
I had spark the whole time.
I disconnected the msd then relearned the computer and bam! It runs.
I might have had a bad ground for the msd, not sure but that thing isnt working properly. but hey im just glad my car runs.
Next is to find out why my fuel pressure drops so fast, i thinks its a bad return valve. Car starts up real good now so Im not leaning towards the fuel injectors.
Thanks for all yuor help and advice! it was much appreatiated!
It turned out it was the msd...... dont ask.
I had spark the whole time.
I disconnected the msd then relearned the computer and bam! It runs.
I might have had a bad ground for the msd, not sure but that thing isnt working properly. but hey im just glad my car runs.
Next is to find out why my fuel pressure drops so fast, i thinks its a bad return valve. Car starts up real good now so Im not leaning towards the fuel injectors.
Thanks for all yuor help and advice! it was much appreatiated!
