I am having issues in allignment (vertically)between the crank gear and cam gear
Put on the crank gear with gear press, it felt bottomed out and I put as much pressure on the crank shaft bolt (gear press threads into crank shaft bolt hole) that feels safe. I then put on cam spocket and began to set-up to degree the cam. Double checked and realized that crank sprocket doesn't line up (it needs to go in deeper) to the cam sprocket. I'm a little nevous of trying any more with the gear press, as it threads in the bolt hole in the snout of the crank and I don't want to break a bolt in there. Thought about trying to hammer it some (big socket), just not sure if that's a good idea, suggestions??? TIA Mick
Car is a 90 , part is cloyes true double

 

anyone????

 

Their is a tool for installing the crank gear.
I just used a deep socket and made sure the socket was set on the strongest part of the gear.
If you hit the gear to hard it will crack,I use a rubber mallet you can get it on that way .The sprocket should be flush at the end of the crank towards the block.I hope you replaced the water pump gear on the cam with the new one ,they are different and if you use the old one it will make noise.
To remove the crank sprocket I just use a chisel and give it a crack on the teeth and the gear breaks right off.
just to give you an idea how weak the gear is.
If you are fighting the gear to get the chain on you are not doing it right .
I just losen the cam and pull it foward a little so it all goes together.

 

Thanks for the reply, the allignment is approx. .030 off to the cam gear I can also use a shim I have to resolve this that goes between the cam and the cam gear (made by C.C. for giving distance between block and the gear.
Yes both are a new set (cloyes true double roller)and the chain will go on, I am a little cocened about the allignment and possible wear issues.
Additionally if I shim the cam, and the crank gear can go in further, (don't think so) and then tighten down the dampner it could possibly push the crank gear in further.
I figured the crank gear is, or can be brittle that is why I was also apprehensive about hitting it with anything. Is .030 approx. out a real concern, as to vertical allignment between both gears? TIA Mick

 

All things being done correctly crank indexed right and crank gear touching the crank at the frist journal and has no clearence ,then you need to look at the cam shaft.
If the cam is to far back you will not be able to turn the cam ,check and see if cam turns easy .
If it is tight or binds you need to knock the cam plug at the back of the motor foward.
After that see if cam turns easy and see if the cam gear now lines up with the crank gear.

 

It looks as if the crank gear is all the way back, but that is what I am thinking the issue is, because I can still see some journal behind it. I am now wondering if the crank gear is radiused enough to go in further.
I am probably going to have to tap on it some, just don't like the idea of the very much. I will also measure the dampner to see if it will be extanded past the snout of the crank.
The cam shaft spins smooth and easy that part feels right. Beacause the motor is in the car the option of adjusting cam plug cannot be done.
Ultimately, if dampner (width to available length fitting flush to snout)measures right, and there is no further crank gear can be pushed in,I am going to have to shim the cam gear out.
As to cam shaft length, I am using a ZZ9 to replace a stock one and I did not measure the overall, but with cam in the block, and retainer bolted down, the cam end play is approx. .005 so that shouldn't be the the issue.
So try and tap the crank gear a bit? You used a socket and rubber mallet carefully?

 

When you tap the gear all the way on the pitch will change to a thud and I know it is scarry when you get to that point.
Just don't get the socket off to one side or the other it has to be streight and center.
Don't hit the gear on one side and then the other I guarantee it will break if you do that.
The other option is the kent more tool but that is $350.00
I would jack the motor up in the front to make sure you are getting a streigh hit.
TAKE YOUR TIME AND BACK OFF IF IT DOES NOT SEEM TO LOOK GOOD.
The fix will take more time than you have in it now.
Are you using the dowel pin that is about 3/4 of an inch in length?
On mine I used the comp cam's roller cam and the dowel pin was to long and I had to cut it back.

 

The Kent Moore tool is not a good option as I don't do enough of these to make it worth while. My regular gear press has been good in the past but, doesn't seem to be cutting it on this project. I don't mind the time to do things right, that is why I was not to quick to throw a shim behind the cam gear to fix the prob. and I am not afraid to ask questions, especially with those who have been there before.
Yeah that looks like another thing, dowel does extend past the face of cam gear, it is useable as it extends past approx .020 give or take.
I can raise motor that is not an issue, how high in the car, I can only get a couple of inches which may be good enough. And yes I have heard that 'dull thud' sound before and even though I know what it is, I just hate the idea of whacking anything on the snout of a crank. Mine is cast it won't just bend, (result on forged if not carefull) it can just snap instead. I am still going to try some tapping, and care is the operative word. More fiddeling I guess is in order, I am going out there now and give it a "whack", so to speak. Thanks for the advice and the tips I'll post back later in the day with my results/progress. Thanks Mick

 

You can only get an inch or two if the trans is hooked up.
Use a 2 by 4 so you don't crush the oil pan .
I hate that stupid little bar they weld in front.
Let me know

 

What kind of crank are you using? I had the same issue with a Cloyes gear and Eagle crank...except it was off by .020. Everyting lined up with the stock crank, but not the eagle. I tried to shim the cam gear, but wasn't happy with that approach, so I had the crank gear machined .020 and everything fit perfectly. That machine job is a little tricky tho as the gear is hardened and the mating surface on the gear is recessed. I think it cost me $20-30.

good luck

 

It is a stock crank, I was thinking of maching it, but basically this is B.S. I called cloyes and of course no-one has ever had an issue w/this . They did say they would send another one that is inspected etc. in a WEEK !! No good just had summit overnight me one and cloyes will make good.....at least!

I have a cherry picker so lifting a little for room is no prob. Front cross frame rail definely blows chunks, even had to disconnect hyd. line to rack,to get a straight hit at it, no prob. just messy.
Well the verdict is in, she no move !! I got MAYBE another .010 out of it
Hit w/every thing but the sink, carefully of course. The guy at cloyes said as long as I hit below the heat treat ring below the teeth should not be an issus. He will replace/refund regardless of damage. Even tech. at comp. cams told me they hit it w/a 5lb. hammer....I didn't go that far.
So I have another one coming I will see if that resolves the problem. Turns out shim is for block w/out cam retainer. I mock set-it up anyways, and the chain has about .010 front to back on the gear might be enough to comp. the difference. Also I notice very little chain motion when pushing sides between the gears (about 1/8" or less) is that normal for these to have so little chain slop? So what do you think?
Bad cam or crank gears to begin with? By the way the PN is 9-3145 m7

 

The LT1 is a real tight fit ,no key way for the crank gear.
I have gone to Home Depot and bought a pipe in the electrical section and a cap for the end in the plumming department and cut down the pipe and hammered it on that way.
I also have put the crank gear in the freezer for 3 or 4 hours,lubed it up and slid it on that way.
If they are sending you a new one I would bang the st out of it and see if it goes all the way on .
If you have a way of measuring the inside of the crank gear and outside of the crank I would do that.
I forget the spects but it is tight.
I know on a stock crank the end play is 0.004 to 0.012.
I would not tork the crank bolt any tighter than 63 ft pounds that is the dampner and hub bolt is 74 foot pounds.
Let me know !
I have a bookon the LT1 but my buddy borrowed it and he is not answering up.The old 9/10 ownership rule.

 

There's a key for the crank gear, just none for the hub on an LT1/4. He has a '90 though so it's a moot point. Freezing the gear would make it tighter. Putting it in a toaster oven at about 325 degrees for a half hour or so will ease installation. This shouldn't really be necessary for these though.

 

I've put together plenty of sbc's and 4.3 v6's (same thing on the front end) including just rebuilding my LT1 and I've always whooped the hell out of them and never had a problem. It's best if you can find a section of pipe that fits around the crank snout and sits on the inner recess, but I've put them on with punches God knows how many times and never had an issue as long as I kept switching from side to side. Get a BFH and give her hell.

 

Heating a part with an interference fit is always the best option if it is practical. Pressing or pulling is the next best, with hammering a last resort! Do you really want to pound the snot out of a cast crank and gear? You certainly don't want to smack it hard with a chisel either. This can bend the snout, causing all sorts of problems. ( How do you think crankshaft/machine shops straighten crank snouts, yep by smacking them with a hammer and copper dolley on the end!)
Although it is common practice to do this, damage to crank snouts and thrust bearings can result.
It is quite easy to heat the part up to say 250 or so degrees (oven or even an old fryer with engine oil will work and the gear should slide on. Make sure both parts are clean with no burrs etc. first. If you do heat the part up, don't go too hot, keep in mind the soft rubber parts surrounding the heated items (ie pan gaskets). Although most will easily tolerate these temperatures, it is wise not to expose them unnecessarily to higher temperatures. Even if you don't get the part hot enough if you do heat it up, you at least won't have to 'hit it' quite so much when you are drifting it on.

 

I used a peice of emery cloth and cleaned/polished the snout a little after having the same problem , and it went right on after that . Don't do too much though . Also , I used a balancer installation tool and pushed it on with the balancer , and then took the balancer back off .

 

Thanks for all the replies

I don't think any hitting can give me the the extra nudge in to bring the crank gear in square (vertically w/ precission straight edge from cam to crank gear) to the cam. Tommorow when I get the new set I am going to start w/measuring the cam sproket, it could be that the inside counter cut is to deep. Than I will pull crank gear and if it measures up the same new one I will then look at a different solution. I think the issue could be the radius that is cut at the back side crank gear that seats it on the rdious of the crank. What really sucks is that at this point is only about .012 that is nessesary. I also looked at it with the chain on, and the chain has maybe around .010 front to back (looking at the car). I could probably run it this way with a little extra wear pattern but I hate doing something half assed.

The idea of heating is a good one, but sliding it on is not the issue. I have a real gear press, and there was no prob. getting it to that point, it is going in another .012 that is, so I don't know if heating could help it. I put what I thought to be a reasonble force and ammount of hits on it, starting w/ rubber mallet and working up to a real hammer (moved maybe .010 from original measurement)
I think one of the cuts is suspect, either the back of cam gear or back side of crank gear, I'll know more when I have another to measure and compare.