Standard or Matched injectors? Is there a difference?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,991
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From: Phoenix AZ
Standard or Matched injectors? Is there a difference?
I'm getting ready to order SVO 30lb injectors and I see both are offered. Standards are 205 bucks but matched are 390. I talked to 2 techs and they both said that with computers making them today they are all the same, and that "matched" actually means they were produced sequentially on the line, basically just 8 injectors off the line in a row, nothing else and that the "tuning" of the injectors is all hogwash. Is this true?
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 476
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From: DFW TX
Flow matched injectors are within 1-2 % of each other, standard flow is within 5 % of each other (I think). Its not a set of the pants difference, but more for tuning. I went with flow matched just for peace of mind with my blower motor. 
Race Director
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 14,924
Likes: 9
From: Merritt Ils Fl
If you are worried about it, buy the standards and ship them to Rick at Crusin Performance and have them matched. If I recalled it cost me $110. to rebuild a set of 8 and match them. Been a while so price may be off. BTW, they are still working great after 5 years.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,991
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From: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted by hippy
You better find 2 new techs. It seems the 2 you have don't know much.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,991
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From: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted by Muffin
If you are worried about it, buy the standards and ship them to Rick at Crusin Performance and have them matched. If I recalled it cost me $110. to rebuild a set of 8 and match them. Been a while so price may be off. BTW, they are still working great after 5 years.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by stubbs
Roger has been a tech for 39 years and Chuck builds ProStock drag cars, not exactly dummies. Both of them feel that after all their years experience that 90% of performance parts are BS and marketing. The shop is constantly full of high dollar classics(57 Tbirds, 55-57 Chevy's, original 427 Cobra's, RT 10's, Road race cars, and on and on), it is widely respected as one of the best shops in the area for top end work. It leads me to wonder about the validity of the claims of the "matching" process. I think some do it and others just advertise falsly, how can I know the difference?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted by hippy
Ask them to reference their "source" of info. To me it sounds like they didn't know the actual answer so they shot off something that sounded good. Keep em if you want, but know that if they don't know the correct answer that they'll give you the wrong one.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by stubbs
I talked to 2 techs and they both said that with computers making them today they are all the same, and that "matched" actually means they were produced sequentially on the line, basically just 8 injectors off the line in a row, nothing else and that the "tuning" of the injectors is all hogwash. Is this true?
You said they told you they came off the line in order, that's why they're matched. That's wrong.
You said that they told you it is hogwash. That's wrong. The sets are combined to flow within a certain % of each other.
So going off your original post what they told you is WRONG.
If you are going to discount what people on here say because these 2 guys know more than all of us, why did you put "Is this true?" at the end of your original post?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted by hippy
Why did you phrase it like this originally?
You said they told you they came off the line in order, that's why they're matched. That's wrong.
You said that they told you it is hogwash. That's wrong. The sets are combined to flow within a certain % of each other.
So going off your original post what they told you is WRONG.
If you are going to discount what people on here say because these 2 guys know more than all of us, why did you put "Is this true?" at the end of your original post?
You said they told you they came off the line in order, that's why they're matched. That's wrong.
You said that they told you it is hogwash. That's wrong. The sets are combined to flow within a certain % of each other.
So going off your original post what they told you is WRONG.
If you are going to discount what people on here say because these 2 guys know more than all of us, why did you put "Is this true?" at the end of your original post?
Last edited by stubbs; Feb 19, 2006 at 06:17 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 151
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From: Chesapeake City, Maryland
[QUOTE=vetster86]Flow matched injectors are within 1-2 % of each other, standard flow is within 5 % of each other (I think). Its not a set of the pants difference, but more for tuning. QUOTE]
This is my understanding. Personally, when I'm getting the injectors done, I'll get them as close as I can to each other. Just makes sense to me and, as someone said, it's good peace of mind.
This is my understanding. Personally, when I'm getting the injectors done, I'll get them as close as I can to each other. Just makes sense to me and, as someone said, it's good peace of mind.
Last edited by 96CEwGEARS; Feb 19, 2006 at 05:43 PM.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 31
From: A dealer near you.
[QUOTE=96CEwGEARS]
Make that +/-5% (10% window). FM injectors within 1%.
Some past info posted:
The acceptable window of tolerance from the factory is 10% (+/-5%). Any reputable company marketing their injectors as FM typically provide injectors within 1-1.5% of each other. Racetronix, PTE and RC all provide injectors that are within a 1% window. The reasons for this spec. are well documented.
Most customers will never know the difference between a 1% FM and non-FM 8% injector. Unless a customer went to the trouble of placing a WBO2 or EGT on every cylinder they would never be able to see the cylinder to cylinder variance in A/F caused by non-FM injectors. In most cases the customer would just assume that they had reached the fine line between knock and max. HP when really it could be a number of cylinders running leaner than the others. It could also be at the cost of lost HP because the customer would have to richen up all 8 cylinders to compensate for the few leaner ones in order to prevent knock. We have had some with distorted spray patterns and odd impedances as well.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...x+flow+matched
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ght=Racetronix
Originally Posted by vetster86
Flow matched injectors are within 1-2 % of each other, standard flow is within 5 % of each other (I think). Its not a set of the pants difference, but more for tuning. QUOTE]
This is my understanding. Personally, when I'm getting the injectors done, I'll get them as close as I can to each other. Just makes sense to me and, as someone said, it's good peace of mind.
This is my understanding. Personally, when I'm getting the injectors done, I'll get them as close as I can to each other. Just makes sense to me and, as someone said, it's good peace of mind.
Some past info posted:
The acceptable window of tolerance from the factory is 10% (+/-5%). Any reputable company marketing their injectors as FM typically provide injectors within 1-1.5% of each other. Racetronix, PTE and RC all provide injectors that are within a 1% window. The reasons for this spec. are well documented.
Most customers will never know the difference between a 1% FM and non-FM 8% injector. Unless a customer went to the trouble of placing a WBO2 or EGT on every cylinder they would never be able to see the cylinder to cylinder variance in A/F caused by non-FM injectors. In most cases the customer would just assume that they had reached the fine line between knock and max. HP when really it could be a number of cylinders running leaner than the others. It could also be at the cost of lost HP because the customer would have to richen up all 8 cylinders to compensate for the few leaner ones in order to prevent knock. We have had some with distorted spray patterns and odd impedances as well.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...x+flow+matched
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ght=Racetronix
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 7,033
Likes: 12
Originally Posted by Racetronix
Make that +/-5% (10% window). FM injectors within 1%.
Some past info posted:
The acceptable window of tolerance from the factory is 10% (+/-5%). Any reputable company marketing their injectors as FM typically provide injectors within 1-1.5% of each other. Racetronix, PTE and RC all provide injectors that are within a 1% window. The reasons for this spec. are well documented.
Most customers will never know the difference between a 1% FM and non-FM 8% injector. Unless a customer went to the trouble of placing a WBO2 or EGT on every cylinder they would never be able to see the cylinder to cylinder variance in A/F caused by non-FM injectors. In most cases the customer would just assume that they had reached the fine line between knock and max. HP when really it could be a number of cylinders running leaner than the others. It could also be at the cost of lost HP because the customer would have to richen up all 8 cylinders to compensate for the few leaner ones in order to prevent knock. We have had some with distorted spray patterns and odd impedances as well.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...x+flow+matched
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ght=Racetronix
Some past info posted:
The acceptable window of tolerance from the factory is 10% (+/-5%). Any reputable company marketing their injectors as FM typically provide injectors within 1-1.5% of each other. Racetronix, PTE and RC all provide injectors that are within a 1% window. The reasons for this spec. are well documented.
Most customers will never know the difference between a 1% FM and non-FM 8% injector. Unless a customer went to the trouble of placing a WBO2 or EGT on every cylinder they would never be able to see the cylinder to cylinder variance in A/F caused by non-FM injectors. In most cases the customer would just assume that they had reached the fine line between knock and max. HP when really it could be a number of cylinders running leaner than the others. It could also be at the cost of lost HP because the customer would have to richen up all 8 cylinders to compensate for the few leaner ones in order to prevent knock. We have had some with distorted spray patterns and odd impedances as well.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...x+flow+matched
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...ght=Racetronix
Since we have a supporting vendor in this topic tell us how you match 8 particular injectors? I have an idea but I would like to hear it from you. Thanks.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Chesapeake City, Maryland
Originally Posted by hippy
Since we have a supporting vendor in this topic tell us how you match 8 particular injectors? I have an idea but I would like to hear it from you. Thanks.
And I'd expect them to do an 'as received' flow and pattern test, disassemble and ultrasonically clean them, reassemble/replace some parts and retest and if they couldn't get within 1% similar characteristics on all 8, sell me one or more that was 'in the family'.
Having said that, I've never done injectors for a car but I have done a few for marine diesels. I'm just guessing the process is pretty much the same. I would expect results to be the same also: more equal cylinder loadings, better emissions and power.
As far as the supporting member thingy goes, I joined in part because I like to learn, not because I'm an expert. And you?
Racer
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 399
Likes: 1
From: Toronto Ontario
Originally Posted by Racetronix
Racetronix, PTE and RC all provide injectors that are within a 1% window.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 6
From: Gainesville, FL
Originally Posted by vette_tweak
If your injectors are within a 1% window, why did my spark plugs go from all identical in color(light tan) to ranging from bone white to dark brown after switching to Racetronix injectors from factory injectors?
They "provide" flow matched injectors (only 50lbs+ always comes that way). It appears they just worded that in a deceiving way to make you think all Racetronix injectors are within 1%. Even if not on purpose - I'd have to agree that is the way it sounds. Everything else must be in the 10% window that they mention... In which case you may very well get your result of mixed plug conditions. - - - I myself had been interested in getting a set of new injectors, but all this mixed information has gotten me worried that I'll just be making things worse. - - - However, I have yet to hear anything bad about the ford/bosch injectors (standards).
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 31
From: A dealer near you.
Originally Posted by 4REGT4
They "provide" flow matched injectors (only 50lbs+ always comes that way). It appears they just worded that in a deceiving way to make you think all Racetronix injectors are within 1%. Even if not on purpose - I'd have to agree that is the way it sounds. Everything else must be in the 10% window that they mention... In which case you may very well get your result of mixed plug conditions. - - - I myself had been interested in getting a set of new injectors, but all this mixed information has gotten me worried that I'll just be making things worse. - - - However, I have yet to hear anything bad about the ford/bosch injectors (standards).
We can not take a non-FM set of injectors and make them into a FM set unless we introduce new injectors into the group. As explained in one link above, what you have can not be changed by modifying the injector internally.