Headers and california emissions
Racer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: Frisco, Texas USA
Originally Posted by GRX
I've been investingating this dilemma alot lately as I plan on something better than what my stock manifolds can do.
I've found that 'shorties' available, none have AIR fittings or EGR on them. Shorties might hit the motor mount frame rise piece. This would be ideal as the smog monkeys wouldn't be able to mess with them. I could just weld the AIR fittings on them (no EGR as 1985 had none), coat them and voila!! ISSUE: front pipe might hit the frame.
I've been considering LT1 manifolds as they are alledged to flow enough to produce 300 odd hp at 6000rpm. I need to test fit them.
They have the AIR fittings for sure.
Long tubes would be ideal. Compromise: uninstall them prior to each smog test
...oh well. Long tubes are yummi excpt for the heat issue.
I've found that 'shorties' available, none have AIR fittings or EGR on them. Shorties might hit the motor mount frame rise piece. This would be ideal as the smog monkeys wouldn't be able to mess with them. I could just weld the AIR fittings on them (no EGR as 1985 had none), coat them and voila!! ISSUE: front pipe might hit the frame.
I've been considering LT1 manifolds as they are alledged to flow enough to produce 300 odd hp at 6000rpm. I need to test fit them.
They have the AIR fittings for sure.
Long tubes would be ideal. Compromise: uninstall them prior to each smog test
...oh well. Long tubes are yummi excpt for the heat issue.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,037
Likes: 520
From: Texas
Originally Posted by TAZO
So, I was just wondering, for all you california folks. Has anyone put long tube headers in with all the emissions hook-ups and passed smog? I just had the smog test last week( stock motor with msd and open air lid) and it passed. The tech actually said it was a very clean running motor. Maybe I should think about a nice set of heads and a better cam? I just have the itch for more power. You can never have to much power!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,037
Likes: 520
From: Texas
Originally Posted by GeosFun
Meanwhile back at the ranch, for an L98, there are no long tubes or shorties with an EO#. Maybe our criticism might be better directed to our header manufacturers. When I was looking for these for my 1988, I found JBA actually had a shorty with a Cal EO#, but they never made it available to the public. 
I could not believe it! 
I even called JBA and gave them the part number and was told, "Sorry Charlie!"
I could not believe it! I even called JBA and gave them the part number and was told, "Sorry Charlie!"I actually considered buying the LT1 header and try to pass it off as an L98 header. Dont know what the difference in exterior appearance would be and I am not sure about the fit since L98 and LT1 exhaust manifold gaskets look different (havent done an in person comparision, just pictures on the internet). This may be the only alternative for us L98 guys, other than extrude honing the crap out of our factory manifolds.
Last edited by Performance nut; Feb 20, 2006 at 08:56 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: nothern california
performancenut--Thanks for the info. Did you put on the pre cats? Good to know that you passed emissions with long tube headers. The reason I was thinking about tpis was they have emissions hook-ups. Did you know the service tech that smogged you car? I would think that or a ben franklin would help.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,037
Likes: 520
From: Texas
Originally Posted by TAZO
performancenut--Thanks for the info. Did you put on the pre cats? Good to know that you passed emissions with long tube headers. The reason I was thinking about tpis was they have emissions hook-ups. Did you know the service tech that smogged you car? I would think that or a ben franklin would help.BTW, in no way am I saying that putting long tube headers on your car is legal. I will say it again, there are no long tube headers that are legal for use in the state of California for C4 Corvettes. There are no headers legal for use in the state of California for 1984-1991 Corvettes. If you decide to put non-approved aftermarket parts on your car, you are on your own.
Last edited by Performance nut; Feb 20, 2006 at 08:39 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,858
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria CA
Will it pass emissions, absolutely. I just won't pass visual. That's the problem. I swap back to stock headers and front y pipe every two years, then take them back off. As long as you have a good main cat, you don't need the pre-cats to run clean.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: nothern california
Thanks guys! I know changing exhaust is illegal in cal anyway. But so is just about anything you change from original equipment. It's allways a chance when changing things around, swaping heads and cam for instance that the car won't pass smog. I have never had a issue with it for the 11 years I've owned my 91 vette. But thats also because it has been kept stock. I've fooled around more with my deisel trucks because they do not have to be smoged. The reason for the long tube headers is obvious, more power, better sound and a more efficient running motor. In my mind if your car passes the snifter test and runs clean with anything thats after market it shouldn't be illegal. I don't need another test for two years so maybe I will just put the headers on and worry about it then. The tree-huggers would just love me for that.
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Pro
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 518
Likes: 17
The story is that all Long Tubes are illegal in CA as the O2 Sensor position is changed. and even if you switch to a Heated O2 Sensor they don't want to hear about it. Yes, it's stupid, but that's CARB?
Get this, I asked CARB about installing a 91 LT5/ZR1 Dual Exhaust on my 91 Z07 Coupe, and they said ONLY if I install the LT5 with it ("yeooow" $$$)!
Geez, the ZR1 Exhaust has Dual CATs, so it's better with more CAT area etc, but the idiots at CARB are not capable of rational thought (they just do what they'e told).
That said, any non-Long Tube setup with AIR where needed will likely pass as long as the O2 Sensors are in roughly the stock position, and you dress it up to look factory etc...
Doug
Get this, I asked CARB about installing a 91 LT5/ZR1 Dual Exhaust on my 91 Z07 Coupe, and they said ONLY if I install the LT5 with it ("yeooow" $$$)!
Geez, the ZR1 Exhaust has Dual CATs, so it's better with more CAT area etc, but the idiots at CARB are not capable of rational thought (they just do what they'e told).
That said, any non-Long Tube setup with AIR where needed will likely pass as long as the O2 Sensors are in roughly the stock position, and you dress it up to look factory etc...
Doug
Originally Posted by aboatguy
It's not whether they pass emissions but whether there are Kalifornia approved Long Tubes. So you should be asking which Long tubes have a CARB number.
Mike
Mike
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,252
Likes: 2
From: Silicon Valley Kalifornia
Originally Posted by 86PACER
Will it pass emissions, absolutely. I just won't pass visual. That's the problem. I swap back to stock headers and front y pipe every two years, then take them back off. As long as you have a good main cat, you don't need the pre-cats to run clean.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Ukiah CA
Originally Posted by GeosFun
For all the whining and notions of ulterior motives, the reason Ca is so tough is three-fold: 1. we have more cars than anyone else and had smog so thick I had to have my headlights on when I drove through LA in mid-afternoon when I drove home from the service (seriously !) years ago,...
!) years ago,...
and it's not only smog laws.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: bakersfield cali
i do the same thing that 86 pacer does, only i do the whole motor as well to pass the sniffer test. no way my mini rammed 409 will pass the visisual. if you don't mind doing some wrenching every two years, get the long tubes and on off road y pipe and leave the the cat back modified. when it's time to pass the sniffer test, put your stock headers and cats and you are ready to pass.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,441
Likes: 421
From: Ventura County, CA
St. Jude Donor '05 thru '24
Originally Posted by 86PACER
Will it pass emissions, absolutely. I just won't pass visual. That's the problem. I swap back to stock headers and front y pipe every two years, then take them back off. As long as you have a good main cat, you don't need the pre-cats to run clean.
I live here in California and I have recently had TPIS headers, y-pipe and new 3inch Catco installed. I wouldnt pass the visual but prior to this install I had in put on the sniffer and passed like a charm at 178k miles. Now with a new cat Im sure it'll still pass. I dont have to worry about putting her on the rollers though as Im military and I keep my car registered in Kitsap County (WA state)
so aside from the swap every few years between headers and the stock manifolds/shorties this may be the only other solution
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 799
Likes: 1
From: Fremont CA
Originally Posted by halifax
This is what I find most annoying. The rest of CA has to suffer for the problems in LA and SF and it's not only smog laws.
and it's not only smog laws.http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/program_map.pdf
You can look up what smog checks are required by the ZIP code where you live.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ZIPAREA/Ziplookup.aspx
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Ukiah CA
Originally Posted by chaos on wheels
Smog check every 2 years is NOT required in places like Mendocino County, it is only required when the car is sold.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/program_map.pdf
You can look up what smog checks are required by the ZIP code where you live.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ZIPAREA/Ziplookup.aspx
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/program_map.pdf
You can look up what smog checks are required by the ZIP code where you live.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/ZIPAREA/Ziplookup.aspx
Last edited by halifax; Mar 7, 2006 at 02:31 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 824
Likes: 30
From: San Pablo California
California Headers
After 2 years of frustration and unable to buy a set of legal headers for my 87 and not wanting to have to swap back and forth just to pass the California emissions tests, I was left with only one choice.
I had an extra set of factory exhaust manifolds that were coated and just now sent them in to be reworked.
Going to open up the ports and have them matched to the Edelbrock heads that will be going on the 383 stroker that is near completion.
One thing that I kept in mind while building this project was to keep it emissions legal meaning that the compression ratio will be about 9.5-9.75 to 1. I fought the CARB people for over 2 years on another project I had and just don't want to deal with them anymore.
Living in the San Francisco Bay Area has many great assets but dealing with the CARB people is not one of them.
I had an extra set of factory exhaust manifolds that were coated and just now sent them in to be reworked.
Going to open up the ports and have them matched to the Edelbrock heads that will be going on the 383 stroker that is near completion.
One thing that I kept in mind while building this project was to keep it emissions legal meaning that the compression ratio will be about 9.5-9.75 to 1. I fought the CARB people for over 2 years on another project I had and just don't want to deal with them anymore.
Living in the San Francisco Bay Area has many great assets but dealing with the CARB people is not one of them.
