cylinder heads again
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Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
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cylinder heads again
OK here goes, I tried the search function but no dice. I am looking to upgrade the heads on my 86, I probably have cracked iron heads as it overheated and blew a head gasket. I am looking a AFR, Edelbrock, Holley,etc. The Edelbrock heads look good but it seems everybody likes AFR heads. I am not looking to go racing just want a little more power, I will be using a Crane 2030 cam and stock engine rebuild with better pistons. I realize the Edelbrock heads I am looking at have 170cc intakes and the AFR units have 190cc so it isn't exactly an apples to apples aproach but I am only after about 300 crank horses or less. Price is a consideration but not the only one. Do I need special head bolts, pushrods (I realize they need to be hardened) etc? So who is going to give me the best type of package deal? : :confused:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,209
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From: Toronto Ontario
St. Jude Donor '13
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
Competion Products sell L98 aluminum heads for around 550-600 a set. With a little of "Do-it-yourself-porting" these could be a nice upgrade. A 0.500" lift the only flow 195cfm. Not very much, but considering they only have a 165cc intake runner, it is okay.
All depend on your budget. The Edelbrock heads are 1200.00 and for that price, i'd get the AFR 190 of 180. AFR introduced the 180cc head that flows as much as their 195cc head (255cfm @ 0.500 lift or 0.550) Very nice head and will help produce torque because of the smaller runner, yet they breath.
You should not need any special head bolts, But i would buy a set ARP head Bolts. And like you said, the hardened pushrods. If you want to go step farther get some hardened guidplate. Not neceesary, but while your there you might as well add them.
What are the specs of you cam? Keep in mind, the air flow restrinction on the L98 is not the heads, but the induction system. The Base intake and the runners. Thats why you can will be able to make some good power with some
mildly port L98 alumimun heads.
Good Luck. :D
All depend on your budget. The Edelbrock heads are 1200.00 and for that price, i'd get the AFR 190 of 180. AFR introduced the 180cc head that flows as much as their 195cc head (255cfm @ 0.500 lift or 0.550) Very nice head and will help produce torque because of the smaller runner, yet they breath.
You should not need any special head bolts, But i would buy a set ARP head Bolts. And like you said, the hardened pushrods. If you want to go step farther get some hardened guidplate. Not neceesary, but while your there you might as well add them.
What are the specs of you cam? Keep in mind, the air flow restrinction on the L98 is not the heads, but the induction system. The Base intake and the runners. Thats why you can will be able to make some good power with some
mildly port L98 alumimun heads.
Good Luck. :D
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
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Re: cylinder heads again (89'Bowtie)
I am seeing the Edelbrock heads listed for $937.00 a pair. I would love to port the heads myself but I am working 12 hours a day 6 days a week and just can't find the time. A friend of mine will be doing the work in exchange gor a 44 magnum, he is an excellent mechanic but light on late model experience just like me, I have ported heads before with good results. Does anyone know who would give me a good deal on AFR heads with all the required goodies? At what price? I am willing to spend the extra cash for good heads but don't want to get redicoloose.The cam I am looking at has about 450 lift or less if I remember right, with a split duration(208/210?).I see Federal Mogul pushrods for $30. Stock and +.100.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,209
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From: Toronto Ontario
St. Jude Donor '13
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
I used a crane Compu Cam.
214/220 @ 0.050
0.455/0.465
This cam really woke up my L98, lots and lots of torque. Suits the L98 really well. I had two of these, one is used, the other is still in the box new. IF you are interested in it let me know ican send some pics. IT is brand new in the crane box.
Let me know.
If you are going to be spending around a 1000, i am not sure, but you may be able to get some AFR's for that price.
89'
214/220 @ 0.050
0.455/0.465
This cam really woke up my L98, lots and lots of torque. Suits the L98 really well. I had two of these, one is used, the other is still in the box new. IF you are interested in it let me know ican send some pics. IT is brand new in the crane box.
Let me know.
If you are going to be spending around a 1000, i am not sure, but you may be able to get some AFR's for that price.
89'
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 697
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From: College Station Tx
Re: cylinder heads again (89'Bowtie)
The AFR's aren't normally my favorite head, but they are much better than the edelbrock. I would stay away from those. If you are matching it with your TPI intake I would definitley try to keep the intake port CC's down.
You might also check out
http://www.brodix.com/Catalog/Heads/...std_pkg-1.html
and a little more agressive
http://www.brodix.com/Catalog/Heads/...fsh_pkg-1.html
With any head if you can I would buy it as cast with no work done and fine a good head porter to do assembly and at least a cleanup with your goals in mind. Just tell them what your goals are and what you have to spend, and they will tell you what they can do.
You might also check out
http://www.brodix.com/Catalog/Heads/...std_pkg-1.html
and a little more agressive
http://www.brodix.com/Catalog/Heads/...fsh_pkg-1.html
With any head if you can I would buy it as cast with no work done and fine a good head porter to do assembly and at least a cleanup with your goals in mind. Just tell them what your goals are and what you have to spend, and they will tell you what they can do.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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Re: cylinder heads again (ChrisB)
Can anyone quote problems with the edelbrock or AFR heads? I would very much like to avoid difficulties. I will not be going to the time and effort to port them myself and I would like the best out of the box performance since Muscatine doesn't have a good porting service. I lean towards the Edelbrock but if AFRs are better then I will spend the extra. Still need a price quote.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,620
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro OR
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
Take a look at Canfield heads too. They flow like AFRs but are cheaper. I think part of your cylinder head decision should be based on possible future upgrades. Most of start out with one plan for hp and later want more and more and ...... You can't really buy one head to satisfy mild to wild engine setups but I think it is possible to get a head that you won't quickly outgrow. I would use the LT4 as a guide for determining where you might go with a 350 street engine. Having said that, I think the 180 cc AFRs are probably your best bet. They should perform well on a mild engine and be capable of putting out some really good power if you decide to go that way later on. I personally prefer out of the box heads as opposed to heavily porting used heads. The price difference isn't that much and you still have the option to port the new heads later on. :hat
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 198
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Re: cylinder heads again (89'Bowtie)
I would like to thank everyone for their help. I am still wondering if the alloys need special head bolts with washers to install or can I use my stoskers? Also how much are AFR heads?$$$ I am really just looking to build a no hassle engine with some more power over stock to keep things interesting. I will be contacting Canfield soon for a quote. Another question is will the valve spring pressure be too high with my Crane cam and lifters? :crazy:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
From: Auburn WA
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
See my site below for dyno results for just Edelbrock heads and exhaust. I was in the same boat, trying to replace problem heads and go with a low cost improvement. Hardened pushrods are required because of the guideplate.
I did have a problem with valve cover fit up but I solved it with a little grinding on the cover. On the other hand, the AFR 190's I have on my Jeep had a problem with the alternator bolt boss, which had been tapped too deeply and put a small hole in the in the top of the head (fixed with some sealant on the alternator bolt).
I did have a problem with valve cover fit up but I solved it with a little grinding on the cover. On the other hand, the AFR 190's I have on my Jeep had a problem with the alternator bolt boss, which had been tapped too deeply and put a small hole in the in the top of the head (fixed with some sealant on the alternator bolt).
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,760
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From: Lost in the mountains of TN
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
Don't count the Edelbrock heads out just yet. Take a look at Lingenfelters book. He says that with the proper cam he could squeeze 420 ponies out of a SBC with those heads. And being as they cost some $300 less than the AFRs you could use that loot for something else. Since you are looking for 300hp at the crank, those heads should do just fine. And with the smaller port volume they should generate a generous amout of low end torque for that chit and get that we all love so much.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,620
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro OR
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
Consult the head manufacture about the springs, bolts etc. I had to use ARP head bolts that had smaller head on the bolts. You could go with studs if you want better clamping but the bolts will work fine. Heads are not cheap.
Canfield is 1074 complete (mostly). AFR is 1250 complete (mostly).
Canfield is 1074 complete (mostly). AFR is 1250 complete (mostly).
Racer
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
I'm going with the brodix heads as well, the Orginal dragon slayer heads. I'll go with those unless someone can change my mind. Oh, and for a cam I was looking at the ZZ-9 cam from TPIS, plus a mini-ram intake from them as well. That should wake up this little 350, huh. :chevy
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
From: Marietta, South Carolina, USA
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
I would look in to DART Iron Eagle or the PRO 1 they are really good heads right out of the box and you can get them from 180CC and up I would go with the 200CC PRO 1.
http://www.dartheads.com/html/products.html
Jay
http://www.dartheads.com/html/products.html
Jay
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,037
Likes: 0
From: Sarasota FL
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
Have someone good port what you have. Shape matters a whole lot more than size. My 87 early AL heads still have small runner volumes and a street valve job, yet they flow with AFR LT1 Stage 2 heads with a race valve job.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: Bremerton WA
St. Jude Donor '09
Re: cylinder heads again (Aaron's 87)
I've got some heads that I just have to clean up before I can sell them. They're stock L98 aluminum heads CNC ported by CNC cylinder heads. They have been further hand blended and the combustion chambers polished. They've got stainless valves and retainers just as they come from CNC cylinder heads. The only difference is that they now have K-motion valve springs (a great valve spring). The heads only have 3500 miles on them since I had them decked and rebuilt, I just have to scrub the minor carbon deposits from the combustion chamber for them to be ready to rock again. they are not warped or suffering from any other ailments. I made 310HP and 350TQ (SAE Corrected Rear Wheel figures) with these. I know they work 
I'm asking $750 shipped for them. I've ordered new Brodix heads (215 cc's) to take their place atop my new engine. I've got the original CNC receipt and the stampings from them to prove their authenticity if it matters.
Let me know if you are interested...
Cory Harris
If your interested
I'm asking $750 shipped for them. I've ordered new Brodix heads (215 cc's) to take their place atop my new engine. I've got the original CNC receipt and the stampings from them to prove their authenticity if it matters.Let me know if you are interested...
Cory Harris
If your interested
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,691
Likes: 1
From: Framingham MA
Re: cylinder heads again (CHarris85Vette)
I made 310HP and 350TQ (SAE Corrected Rear Wheel figures) with these. I know they work I'm asking $750 shipped for them.
I'm asking $750 shipped for them.
BTW that is a great price for those heads, I would pick them up myself, if I already didn't have a set (I paid a little more for my used set.)
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: Bremerton WA
St. Jude Donor '09
Re: cylinder heads again (dgoodhue)
DGoodhue,
I made these figures with a 383, Comp Cams 305, Ported Super Ram, Lingenfelter 1 5/8 full length headers, no cat, and stock rear y-pipe with flowmasters welded on. It should have made a bit more power but, as I later found out, my exhaust gaskets had slipped down blocking the top 1/8 inch of the exhaust ports. I didn't make it to the strip before this combo died so I don't have 1/4 times.
On a 350 (previous to my 383 build up) I ran 12.89 at 110.5 mph with these heads, a 219/219 cam, unported Super Ram, the same exhaust, and a crappy torque convertor that would only foot brake up to 1600 rpm's. Like I said I feel that they are great heads for the money.
Hope this covered your questions.
Cory
I made these figures with a 383, Comp Cams 305, Ported Super Ram, Lingenfelter 1 5/8 full length headers, no cat, and stock rear y-pipe with flowmasters welded on. It should have made a bit more power but, as I later found out, my exhaust gaskets had slipped down blocking the top 1/8 inch of the exhaust ports. I didn't make it to the strip before this combo died so I don't have 1/4 times.
On a 350 (previous to my 383 build up) I ran 12.89 at 110.5 mph with these heads, a 219/219 cam, unported Super Ram, the same exhaust, and a crappy torque convertor that would only foot brake up to 1600 rpm's. Like I said I feel that they are great heads for the money.
Hope this covered your questions.
Cory
Thread Starter
Instructor
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Re: cylinder heads again (CHarris85Vette)
OK here's the deal. I bolt on a set of basic edelbrock heads #6090 and a Crane compucam, Adv 264/274,lift.423/.446. No cats , true duals, 1.5 roller rockers, 9.75-1 Speed Pro pistons. Can I make close to 300 crank horses? I will be happy just getting close. and this seems to be the easiest setup. with the stock intake. :smash:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 862
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From: Auburn WA
Re: cylinder heads again (jeffie86/96)
Well, considering I got, depending how you figure the drivetrain losses for an automatic, 280-285 crank hp with just the Edelbrock heads, 1.5 rockers, a single Catco converter (no precats), and Dynomax mufflers, then with the help of a cam you could probably put yourself in the 300hp ballpark.