I started this is tech and was told to go here... Here is the original thread http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...60&forum_id=48 -

As stated in that thread - I will e-mail you the file if you PM me with your address. - - - Otherwise I'd be thankful if someone would instruct me on how to post my Datamaster file into this thread.

Most of the information on my situation is in that other thread, so please take a look. Thanks for any help

 

This is my first attempt at linking a download of my Datamaster file - http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php...d0b540e709e9c7


Perhaps there is a more straight forward hosting site??

 

From what I'm seeing you have a definate problem, you are in open loop as much as closed. your short term fuel trims are all over the place and your long terms are mostly showing lean. you have a high knock count and are in spark retard the whole time. And the O2 mv seem to be locked at 129, not swinging above/below 500 like it should be. and the other O2 was sowing less than 100mv and most of the time it read zero.
It sure looks like the RH O2 is bad. Have you checked the wiring to it?

 

Wiring eh? Well the first time it was bad (assumed it was from the oil leak) the chevy dealer replaced it and installed brand new connectors... each time it has been replaced it was at a point where the car became undrivable because of it. When they were replaced it was a new car each time for a while. Would this happen with a wiring problem?


Edit: - Of course I ultimately want to know WHY the RH O2 is going bad...

 

If the wiring is shorting out, yes it could fry the sensor. From what I saw on your scan, the RH O2 is all but dead and that may be affecting the reading from the LH (it showed lean) I'm afraid I don't know a lot about the later LT1's with dual O2's..are they heated as in 3 wires? If you can get them at a good price at an auto parts store I would try replacing both of them. Then do another scan and see what it is doing. If all appears well in that scan, I would then scan it about once a week for 2-3 months and save the scans. You'd want to compare them to the previous week's scan and look for any trending, degrading O2 readings, L term & S term fuel trims changing from the last readings. Maybe then you'll be able to spot an O2 going bad (if it does) and be able to see what is causing it.

 

They are heated O2s... I got the last one for about $80 I think - that was down south at NAPA. I don't know if we have a NAPA here so I'd have to look for who carries them for what price... But as mentioned.. The right side has been doing this same thing since I've had the car. Having been replaced twice already I'd hate to buy another one just to wait for it to go bad again. I wish I had some lead as to what fix might get rid of this problem. I can check the wiring I suppose... where should I check for a possible short??

 

To help diagnose what is going on.... I'll re-iterate something I mentioned in my initial post to ask..... Why does my car go from running fine to running like crap and throwing the code 64 coincide with putting gas in the car?

 

Coincidence, unless you are getting some REALLY contaiminated gas...but that should affect both sensors.
You said that they put a new connector on when the O2 was changed, that is the first place I'd look at the wiring. Make sure they got the power, ground and signal wires going to the right places and didn't short any of them together.
Improper wiring and contamination are the only 2 things I can think of that would kill an O2 sensor. Maybe see if Alvin or TJ Wong have run across something like this in their businesses.

 

Ok - I'm finally at a point where I am at home and not busy. I will go outside and see if I can see a problem with the wiring. As a note - the only gas I ever put in the car is 93 Octane Chevron (that is what went in each time). I will let you know if I see anything weird... So far I have had to fix everything myself that "professional" people have screwed up on this car... not ONE thing has been done intelligently... - However again.... it was doing this before that connector was replaced.. so unless it was strictly the oil leak that caused it.. I am not too optimistic... - - I suppose I will contact PCMforless after this too... I have spoken to Brian before since he deals with the tunes on a 95.. I will e-mail both of them.

 

As for contamination... what could cause contamination? - Could it not have anything to do with fuel injectors on the right side? (85k+ miles on the car). I have read related posts mentioning vacuum leaks and such... I don't know if any of that sort of thing could pertain here....

 

The biggest killer of O2 sensors is silicone contamination. So if it was the gas, it would have killed both of them.
One hting that can affect just one sensor though is coolant contamination. If you have a cylinder that is leaking coolant into it on that side, it would also kill the sensor.
I wouldn't think the injectors themselves could be doing this, unless maybe you have a dead injector or two over there, but then it would act the same even with a new O2 sensor installed.
You could ohm out those injectors and see if they are bad. Look for 15-17 ohms, or there abouts. The important part is that they should not vary in resistance more than .2 ohms (.4 could be acceptable but I'd keep an eye on the ones that read that different).

 

I had checked the injector resistance already. I don't remember the exact numbers (I do have that sheet somewhere) but they were all pretty much identical (I'm pretty sure the engine was cold when I checked. I'll look for that sheet right now. - - also - I just sent an e-mail to Bryan at PCMforless with a brief rundown and my TTS file. Hopefully he can give me a good lead.



EDIT: - Here are the resistance numbers I got... Drivers side - 12.7 / 12.7 / 12.7 /12.7 - Passenger side - 12.6 / 12.8 / 12.6 / 12.8



Should I get it hot and check the resistance? The right side certainly varies the most, and I have read that being hot can change a lot about the resistance. And I imagine that is where you expect the 15-17 range.

 

Having now seen this thread again.. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...or&forum_id=48


This shows that the resistance #s only go lower when hot..... Is there something different about the L98 injectors he is using? I don't know how I could have mis-tested mine... But I cant imagine them all being so far off and being so close...

 

Naa, if all of your injectors were in the 12 ohm range then you did it right. The earlier injectors usually ohm out right around 16 ohms. The biggest thing is that they all read around the same. You could try warming up the engine and ohm them out again, it can't hurt to eliminate each item one by one. Sometimes you have to go the route of figuring out what it isn't before you can get things fixed.

 

Well.... I am reading that RTV can be a problem. A light amount was applied when installing the right side the last time. Is it possible that my previous O2 failures were in fact caused by what I initially assumed? And that this time the RTV is causing the problem? I don't know all the facts to this, but could an RTV issue cause these symptoms?? - just trying to throw out more possibilites to consider... Could I remove the sensor...remove the RTV and re-install to check this? I don't see anywhere around here to acquire AC Delco sensors (just Bosch which have caused other people problems).

 

RTV was used to install the sensor? Silicone is the main ingrediant to RTV and if it didn't say "oxygen sensor safe" on it then yep, it probably poisoned the sensor. Just removing the sensor and cleaning up the RTV won't do it, the sensor is toast and needs to be replaced. Once they are poisoned that's it.

 

In that case.... I don't have any good auto places to go to around here... I seem to be limited to the Bosch O2 sensors that Autozone or Advance Auto Parts carries.. I believe it was an AC Delco unit that I got from NAPA last time... Either way I'll be sure not to put any RTV on it. - - - Is it "OK" to use one of the Bosch units from AZ or AAPs? Or is that a waste of time... - - My problem is that I need something quick since I need to be able to drive the car at least 2 hours on the highway this weekend.

EDIT: Correction - we do have a NAPA nearby. I will call them tomorrow and see if they carry the AC Delco part.


EDIT #2: I checked the store site and I see a part # with BSH - so it sounds like they just carry Bosch - and that may very well be what I currently have installed on the right hand side. - - I don't know if I am just experiencing the problem because of using a Bosch unit there...

 

I just checked Auto Zone on line, They carry Bosch, Arvin and Denso, all avialable in 3 wire heated, some in 2 wire and one in 4 wire.
If you go there tell them you want 234-4012 Denso, they'll probably have to order it.
Advance Auto (Parts America) lists a few to choose from too, Bosch, Beck/Arnley, Borg Warner, Niehoff & Standard motor products.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductL...xygen%20Sensor

 

I agree completely with Morely RTV is a very bad thing.But as I remember that cat was contaminated before you punched it out so I doubt the RTV is what caused your initial problem unless the first sensor had it too and caused the cat to die.And just what was you assumption of the original cause injectors?What do you base that on.

Running too lean as suggested by datamaster can cause the knocks.You said heated O2s right so I don't get the open/closed loop issue if they work right it should close.Are you showing any codes? You should be.I had 164K on my orginal injectors and the car ran so the milage is not a big issue with them.Not to say it is not them just as a reference.

I came in late here and Morley is very competent and is offering good advice.From your other thread you said you were replacing the obviouly bad O2.I would do a scan after that immediately,check for codes and repost a new scan but my thoughts are something is taking out the O2 on that side(as well as your cat) and mabey you have an internal leak.Just a guess but after your next scan it should tell more.Did you notice anything in the pipe when you punched the cat out?Have you done a vacuum measurement on the intake?I would it should be around 20inHg+- a couple it might be a good time to establish that number.If it is too low it will go lean from an intake leak.I have not looked at your scan but will when I get home but Morely described it pretty well.Good Luck.

Lets see what the next scan looks like but keep these things in mind.

 

Not trying to speak for him, but he mentioned that the first O2 and cat were killed by an (internal?) oil leak. After running another file on my copy of datamaster I discovered that it was not reading right, the install had become corrupt. I have since reinstalled it and run his file again. he is staying in closed loop and the RH O2 isn't showing completely dead but it is definately lean. Also the R BLM is high (lean) and the left is low (rich) and the O2's are doing opposites most of the time.
He was showing a code 54 on the scan I looked at.
and in the file, any time he gives it some gas, the knock counts go up and everything goes leaner on the RH. The injector P/W is slightly higher on the RH, as it should be if the RH is running leaner and when the RPM's peak the RH injector D/C is almost pegged 92.4% RH vs 79.5% on the LH.

At this point I would remove that O2 sensor and replace it (keep the old one) and scan again and post it. If the O2 doesn't correct the problem Then its time for a through vacuum leak check and if that turns out good, it may be time to replace injectors.