Im having a ZZ4 short block put in and have to use my stock upper parts due to costs (its already around 5K for the ZZ4 short block, rebuild, and installation). The ZZ4 is rated at 355 hrs pwr but about how much will I have due to the stock upper parts? My heads are being redone but I want to replace them later on as well as the intake. Im considering spending my own money (not my dad's :D) on a Mini or Super ram while the engine is still out (now), how much increase with stock heads do you think I will get? What are some real good heads?

Or should I wait and do this later and get my stock Bose stereo working (or whole new system), windows working, and just basically bring the car back to new appearence wise besides paint (which it needs)? Can you tell I want a lot of horse power and torque :D:D? Keep in mind my age, 16. Thinking that im 16, I should probably not try for tons of power right now huh?

 

If you are not going to install a big cam and good heads the super ram is your best choice. The super ram will be strong at low and mid range best for street use. The mini ram will make more power than the super ram at a higher rpm providing that you have the cam and heads to not restrict the flow :cheers:

 

I am impressed that you are so mechanically advanced at 16. My personal advice if you'll listen is to go ahead and put stock TPI back on with one exception. Put on the Larger intake manifold now while engine is being put together. With the stock heads (even cleaned up) and no Headers or CAT or muffler changes, the SR will not do much more than looks. That is my humble opinion. Go ahead and make car driveable with tunes and workin windows. You can add the SR Plenumn easily later with the manifold already on, when more money is available. Then Maybe at same time add a 52mm Throttle body and larger injectors. But you will still be tryin to stuff more air in than can come out (which can't happen). Keep us informed as the project progresses

 

Im planning on eventually getting a whole new exhaust sys including headers. Will gutting the cat and cutting off the mufflers for straight pipes free up the exhaust a lot? Is there another place to get Lingenfelter's Accel SuperRam Base Intake Manifold other than from him? About how much hp do you think this motor will make with a new exhaust and headers, Super Ram, and a good set of heads on a ZZ4 make?

 

I like the mini-ram. But it is very expensive. It sure is easy to install tho, and looks cooler, hahahahaha.

 

i got my vote on the mini ram cause it is an easier install and you have access to everything unlike the super ram...... ? :cheers:

 

I am wondering about the condition of your heads since the bottom end is being replaced. If your stock heads need work, check into the cost to get them redone and then compare the cost to new heads. L98 heads are supposed to be pretty good but heads are the secret to power so better flowing ones are a good idea if you can afford it.

I'd opt for the Superram. There's a nice torque boost from 2500 - 5000 over a mini ram because of the wave tuning of the intake runners. Miniram out performs the superram above 5500 rpm and will generate higher hp numbers but the superram will work better on the street and be well suited to the ZZ4 cam profile.

 

The heads can be repaired for a heck of a lot less than new heads since they were not damaged much at all. Would it be good to buy new heads now with the engine out and later upgrade to the Super or Mini Ram? My dad and I are both cautious about a lot of power since im just 16, but I really really want a 350-400 hrs pwr vette to beat the snot out of almost all ricers here so easily at the strip. If I get new heads now and get the Super or Mini Ram later, what are some real good heads that will not break the bank?

 

Both intakes are darn good pieces, but as Aqua said above, the camshaft would tend to compliment the SR better, and I agree with that.... so probably a better pick for you at this point.

It sounds like you're getting literally just the short block of the ZZ4 and not the heads, which is okay, they're basically the same. Have somebody port them, put some headers and good exhaust system on and with the SR I think you would easily have 350 flywheel HP and depending on how many of the smaller little things that add up that you do, you could approach and even exceed 400 HP with a 350.... not easy, but doable.

SR is a pain in the butt to do the initial installation, but if you do it right the first time... it'll be your last time for a long time. I would guess, that if you are patient the SR only takes another hour or two to install versus the stock TPI.... in the scope of things, thats not a big deal to me, especially considering the big torque and hp gains you will receive.

Have fun !!! and let us know what you decide on.

Cheers,
Beach Bum

 

At the moment, I want new heads or to port the old heads. My dad may split the cost of new heads 50/50 but maybe not since this engine is getting quite expensive. Next summer I want new exhaust sytem with new headers, a 52 mm throttle body, and probably the Super Ram. I want 400 hrs pwr at the flywheel so what other things would I need for that? What are some good heads for the ZZ4?

 

Ouch... 400 rwhp is a lot of power and you're not gonna get their with a Superram, and probably not even a MR with a 350... as a matter of reference, check out forum members "Bowtye8" webpage. He has a MR with a 383, and ZF 6 speed and has dynoed at roughly 375 rwhp (out of memory) this was with Edelbrock heads and a hyd roller cam, he has recently switched to AFR heads and a solid roller so he probably will hit and exceed 400 rwhp... but it wasn't easy.

You can link to his webpage from my webpage in the Interesting Links section.... his link is "2 Stroked vettes", his is the 85 when you get to the page.

Very hard to do what you want.... but hope you can achieve it.

good luck
Beach Bum

 

i like the superam prolly cause thats what i own hehe :D

 

I meant I would like the engine to produce around 400 hrs pwr, not at the rear wheels. My wallet is not even close to being that deep :cry. Can I achieve 400 hrs pwr at the engine with the ZZ4 short block, a whole new exhaust system, Super Ram, and new heads or ported and polished stock heads? If not stock heads, what heads would you suggest. Would I have to beef up the drivetrain with the engine making 400 hrs pwr?

 

"Keep in mind my age, 16. Thinking that im 16, I should probably not try for tons of power right now huh?"

You said it not me. You obviously have more sense than I did at 16 for your dad to trust you with a car like that and to question your own age (see above). If I had a car like that at 16 I don't know If I'd be here now (seriously).

Your car will have more than enough power "to beat the snot out of almost all ricers here so easily at the strip" with a ZZ4 in it. I think maybe you should make your car look as good as it drives. Money you'd spend on heads and a Miniram will be more than enough to take care of your windows, stereo, and get it back to looking the way it should. After you get used to the power and get more experience on the road, then you might want to un-cork the ZZ4 to its full potential by going for the Miniram and a set of heads.

Who knows..your dad may be so impressed by your maturity level that he'll help cover the cost of new paint :lol: . It's cheaper than what you may think if you do all the prep yourself (remove weatherstripping, bumpers, trim, emblems, strip paint, prime and block sand).

......Just my opinion of course


[Modified by Ron78Z&85Vette, 1:21 AM 8/26/2001]

 

I have had both. I you want HP for bragging rights and are willing to give up little drivablity then the MR is better. I currently have a MR on my 396 mighty mouse motor and next week its coming off in favor of a ported and Extrude Honed Super Ram Plenum runners and base. I have had it with the Miniram. It's easier to install but do it right the first time and should never have to take it off. I want my toruqe back and driveability the Super Ram gives you. Oh and the outside of the SR is polished like a mirror. So my vote is the Super Ram that has been ported. MR intakes on 350's are not recommended anyway.

Jason


[Modified by 89vette, 9:49 AM 8/26/2001]

 

If I were you, I'd want to get the car running as soon as possible. My next priority would be getting the radio to work and then an overall cleanup. I think after you start driving it the horsepower chase will subside (a little bit) and you can refocus your energies. After you get the car on the road females will start to creep into your life. (Look out) By the way, how are your grades?

 

My grades last year in a private school were all A's and I took the toughest courses I could. This year im taking two sciences, physics and human biology, with other advanced classes, including 2 college level courses.

At the moment, it does make sense to wait a while for more power (is something wrong wih me? :D) and start fixing the windows and stuff. How much do you think the stock heads and intake will limit the ZZ4?

 

Congratulations on your grades! I wish my step-son was as focused as you are. While you have everything apart, why don't you talk to your father about getting an abrasive kit and port the heads and intake? It would be a fun project and you could squeeze out so more power. Keep up the good work.

 

If you can afford it, go for new heads. They will do more for you than exhaust and the 52 mm throttle body and allow you to get the most out of those mods. I'd skip the 52 TB and spend the 300 on the stereo when you do that next year.

Take a look at 195 cc Canfield Heads http://www.canfieldheads.com. They are the best out of the box performer for the money and all you need until you go over 500 hp. Find out about the new 180 cc Airflow research heads also. They have smaller 180 cc intake runners which is ideal for a 350 but still flow close to their 190 cc brothers. http://www.airflowresearch.com.

Heads wear out just like the rest of the engine. It costs about 200 bucks in labor to rebuild your stock heads including installation of new guides, seat work, etc. A good set of bronze guides is around 100 and you probably want new springs for future cam upgrades which is another 100 bucks. You might as well go for new valves instead of having you valves redone which is another 100 bucks (compare with valves being ground for 50 bucks ?). At this point your upto 500 bucks. You could probably sell your stock heads as is for 100 bucks so that gets the real cost to 600 and they are just stock heads. You can port your own heads but bowl porting and gasket matching is the only stuff most us can do without ruining the heads. It takes a professional to port the heads properly and I would only trust people who have proven CNC porting systems. Ported L98 heads run 1000 or more including exchanging your heads. Out of the box heads will run 1100 to 1200 and they can be ported later on if you wish or can be resold and you can move up to the next size heads which is probably a better idea. Finally, do you really want to put used heads on a new short block ?

 

The Canfields have no provision for the temp sensor and fan relay that screw into the heads. I have had both CNC ported L98 heads and now the 195 comp port. Side by side, the CNC L98 intake port looks better but the AFR flows better. Either way your looking at $1500.00 for the CNC heads or $2000.00 for the Comp ported AFR's. You might want to check out Trick Flows new 23 degree head. This is NOT the old twisted wedge heads you hear bad things about. Good choice on the Super Ram.