C4 road race alignment settings?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 14,676
Likes: 751
From: NEwhere Ohio
C4 road race alignment settings?
Does anybody have any links to recommended C4 road race alignment settings?
I think at one time somebody had a link to a VBP (Vette brake parts website) showing optimum (and most of the forum members seemed to agree) camber/caster/toe settings for street/road race/autoX settings.
Any help is appreciated!
I think at one time somebody had a link to a VBP (Vette brake parts website) showing optimum (and most of the forum members seemed to agree) camber/caster/toe settings for street/road race/autoX settings.
Any help is appreciated!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 394
From: Lakeville MI
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,037
Likes: 520
From: Texas
Saved me the trouble
I was going to search for something like this. Ya must be a mind reader.
I like the bottom of the webpage:
So, I guess those are those numbers are "starting points" and then you adjust from there depending on how it feels.
I like the bottom of the webpage:
Daily Driver - These specs are designed to minimize tire wear and dynamic forces on front end parts. Driver effort is minimum, the car will steer very "light" and may wander or be "darty" on road with wear ruts. If you are uncomfortable with this feeling, toe the car in up to a maximum of 1/8" total toe in.
Advanced Street - These specs are designed to give an even quicker steering response with minimum tire wear. If the car is "darty", toe the car in. By toeing in, you may loose some turn-in qualities gained by the initial specs.
Autocross - These specs are a good baseline to start from. The driver must take into consideration that size, compound and condition of the tires. The chassis is affected by the valve package in the shocks, spring rates and sway bars. The Autocross course design and the condition of the surface will also have a bearing. These specs do not work and are not recommended for street use because of adverse tire wear. The car will act "nervous" when ever changing street surface.
Track - These specs are by far just a baseline. Those of you who race know alignment specs will change based upon weather, track and unique setup. These specs can also change on each corner of the car and driver to driver.
Advanced Street - These specs are designed to give an even quicker steering response with minimum tire wear. If the car is "darty", toe the car in. By toeing in, you may loose some turn-in qualities gained by the initial specs.
Autocross - These specs are a good baseline to start from. The driver must take into consideration that size, compound and condition of the tires. The chassis is affected by the valve package in the shocks, spring rates and sway bars. The Autocross course design and the condition of the surface will also have a bearing. These specs do not work and are not recommended for street use because of adverse tire wear. The car will act "nervous" when ever changing street surface.
Track - These specs are by far just a baseline. Those of you who race know alignment specs will change based upon weather, track and unique setup. These specs can also change on each corner of the car and driver to driver.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,344
Likes: 4,009
From: Texas
I run the following specs…
Front
Front
Camber: -1.8*
Caster: ~6* positive
Toe: 0
RearCaster: ~6* positive
Toe: 0
Camber: -1.5*
Toe: 1/8" total toe-in
I use Hoosier R compound tires and they really like more negative camber (~-2.5*). Unfortunately C4s are camber challenged. To get my camber numbers I had to have the upper a-arm spacers machined in addition to the car being lower than stock.
Toe: 1/8" total toe-in
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Boynton Beach, FL
The settings on my 90 ITE race car
Front
2.0 deg neg camber
+7.5 deg caster*
0 deg toe
Rear
2.5 deg neg camber
1/8" total toe in
Don't take these numbers as the bible. Settings depend on a lot of additional factors;
tires (315 victoracers all around)
vehicle weight (3000)
corner weights (within 50 lbs on cross weights)
springs (Z-51 front and rear)
sway bars (custom fr & rr)
shocks (Koni sport)
driver (I refuse to answer on the grounds I might incriminate myself)
* with K arm slotted upper control arm mounted holes, milled spacers.
Larry
Front
2.0 deg neg camber
+7.5 deg caster*
0 deg toe
Rear
2.5 deg neg camber
1/8" total toe in
Don't take these numbers as the bible. Settings depend on a lot of additional factors;
tires (315 victoracers all around)
vehicle weight (3000)
corner weights (within 50 lbs on cross weights)
springs (Z-51 front and rear)
sway bars (custom fr & rr)
shocks (Koni sport)
driver (I refuse to answer on the grounds I might incriminate myself)
* with K arm slotted upper control arm mounted holes, milled spacers.
Larry
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,871
Likes: 15
From: Detroit's West Side MI
Larry, why so much -camber in the rear?
Most of the info I've read has the front at -2* or more, with the rears about 0.5* less. Did you have a lot of oversteer?
Of course I run coil-overs, perhaps that's the difference.
Most of the info I've read has the front at -2* or more, with the rears about 0.5* less. Did you have a lot of oversteer?
Of course I run coil-overs, perhaps that's the difference.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Boynton Beach, FL
Why -2.5 deg camber at rear?
I have no rational, logical or technical reason. Like most race cars, it got there by experimenting with different setting until I got the car dialed in. In all honesty my 90 was the best track handling C-4 I ever built. My 86 Z-51 was the best autoX car but thats another story. My 90 was dead neutral 95% of the time. Only if the driver got too aggressive did I get oversteer, mostly on cold tires. I rotated the 315Victoracers front to rear after each event so my tire wear was even. I could run them to the cords.
Dialing in a car is the confluence of many variables. The -2.5 deg camber worked on my car, with my set up and for my driving style. on California tracks.
One lesson I learned a long time ago regarding car set up, don't just listen to the experts and take thier word as gospel. Listen, think through what they say and then TEST IT. Every racing team in the world with the best engineers with the best computer modeling equipment still tests extensively.
Their is great personal satisfaction in testing and finding a change that really improved the way your car handles.
Larry
I have no rational, logical or technical reason. Like most race cars, it got there by experimenting with different setting until I got the car dialed in. In all honesty my 90 was the best track handling C-4 I ever built. My 86 Z-51 was the best autoX car but thats another story. My 90 was dead neutral 95% of the time. Only if the driver got too aggressive did I get oversteer, mostly on cold tires. I rotated the 315Victoracers front to rear after each event so my tire wear was even. I could run them to the cords.
Dialing in a car is the confluence of many variables. The -2.5 deg camber worked on my car, with my set up and for my driving style. on California tracks.
One lesson I learned a long time ago regarding car set up, don't just listen to the experts and take thier word as gospel. Listen, think through what they say and then TEST IT. Every racing team in the world with the best engineers with the best computer modeling equipment still tests extensively.
Their is great personal satisfaction in testing and finding a change that really improved the way your car handles.
Larry
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,871
Likes: 15
From: Detroit's West Side MI
Originally Posted by Vetracr
I have no rational, logical or technical reason. Like most race cars, it got there by experimenting with different setting until I got the car dialed in.
Thanks for the response!
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Boynton Beach, FL
[QUOTE= It understeers slightly entering some slow corners, but it's perfect on longer sweeping turns, and the tail is easily controllable with the throttle. [QUOTE]
If you have an 88+ car add more front caster to get better turn in. It won't hurt on straights either.
Larry
If you have an 88+ car add more front caster to get better turn in. It won't hurt on straights either.
Larry
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,871
Likes: 15
From: Detroit's West Side MI
Originally Posted by Vetracr
If you have an 88+ car add more front caster to get better turn in. It won't hurt on straights either.
Larry
Larry