zrchris

I will restrict my sales marketing to the proper venues or occassions. If some miss the offer they can blame it on those that have complained.

Chris


[Modified by zrchris, 11:54 AM 9/21/2001]

CowboyNVette

What's wrong with the stock shifter? Mine seems pretty good but I haven't tried any aftermarket shifters. Hell just changing my shifter ball lowered my shifter a little over an inch. :seeya

9TZR1

In defense of Chris. I feel his comparision write up was pretty much dead on the money from what I could learn about all the available shifters. I bought mine from Chris and I am very happy with it. There are a few people I have talked to that have experience with all the shifters and recommended the Hurst. I ordered mine from Chris on 9-10 and recieved it on 9-13. It is a big improvement over the factory shifter.

zrchris

Steven & Cowboy, please read this document to realize the changes that the aftermarket shifters produce.
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt1479b/C4shift.doc

As far as cutting the stick or changing to a shorter handle, the stock leverage ratio is around 8:1. Handle height changes reduce throw by only a small amount ~10-15%. This however does ease access to the radio, etc, and enhance comfort.

Chris

Yello95

[QUOTE]" No problems... 1.25" shorter "


I've always heard that "bigger is better"... :lol: :smash: :lol: :smash: :eek: :D :rolleyes: :seeya

Yello95

Im withya Cowboy...I like my stock shifter... :yesnod: :cheers: :D :seeya

silver & red CE

I'm really thankful for what Chris has done. In his free time he designed an improved shifter for our cars, then took the time to get a manufacturer to produce it. To top it off, he is available to answer questions and stand by his product. Compare that to some of the other Vette aftermarket retailers.

I have spoken with ZR51 Transmission and they say Chris' shifter is the only aftermarket shifter that doesn't stress the trans, the Kurt White and B&M do. According to them, this added stress will reduce the life of your ZF6 trans.

Disclaimer:

I have never spoken or cooresponded with Chris. I purchased a Hurst Shifter for my 96 CE from summit for $129.00. Have not installed it yet.

Eric

jimbjr

Can someone expand on the stress of the transmission. I do not want to have to rebuild the tranny.

zrchris

Hi Jim, If you review my document-
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt1479b/C4shift.doc

Also reference this pic to understand the components if you're not aware-
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt1479b/gmshift2.jpg

For the following discussion we're talking about items 42 and 48.

In the document you'll see discussion of the cross pin offset (item 42). As discussed, this gives the gearshift rod (48) an angle, and like a driveshaft you want it close to straight for best performance. Here of course the situation is slightly different since we're applying an axial force and motion to this rod. If the gearshift rod is at an angle, the force you apply is not being directed at the transmission but at an upward angle, only a component of that is actually effectively used by the trans. Clearly this will lead to bushing wear and premature gearshift shaft failure if the angle is excessive.

The Hurst shifter gives an angle of 3.5 degrees, the smallest of the three and essentially negligible. The B&M however is not far behind. The KW kit gives an angle of 15 degrees. These measurements are only on the center gate, the angles compound in off-center gates, and again the farther the offset the greater the compound angle.

B&M's angle is about 1 degree more than the Hurst, I don't view it as too significant. I have heard of lower rubber boots getting cut by the bottom of the stick since the offset is enough to make the stick rub the boot. The Hurst stays clear of that. The raised pivot of the B&M puts more stress on the user, but I don't think impacts the trans at all. Their swingplate isn't as sturdy as factory but that's just an external piece. Their reverse lockout sprung pin stresses the shifter frame in a bad place, but that's optional and easy to remove.

The B&M's notchiness sure does make it feel like you're not doing the trans good, and it seems to me a missed gear with a B&M shifter might mean a better chance of damage than with a stock or Hurst unit by nature of the short engagement distance. In the end the Hurst is truly the safest in terms of durability of the shifter, trans, and user.

Chris


[Modified by zrchris, 4:42 PM 9/22/2001]

RichS

I tryed 95Callaway's Hurst shifter vs my Ripper. They feel the same except the Hurst throw is not as short as the ripper. I thought the effort was the same, the side to side out of gear were the same as well.(very little) I like the shorter throw of my Ripper and will not change it out for the Hurst. No way!!

zrchris

Rich, side-to-side distance is the same between the Hurst and B&M. The fore/aft effort is not the same, a simple fact of the leverage reduction. The B&M has twice the effort of the Hurst on a given trans. It's much notchier than the Hurst too. Transmission variations may make effort difference not look as significant, some transmissions do fine with the B&M but for others it's unbearable. So for others selecting a shifter, part depends on how hard their trans shifts, part on how short of a throw they want.

Chris

Silver 96

Has anyone here actually noticed a difference in 1/4 mile times as a result of using a shorter-throw shifter?

Hutch

Hey! Whatcha trying to do? Don't try to confuse the issue with FACTS! :D

Seriously, these units *do* have a noticably shorter throw which therefore requires less time to execute a shift, but I'm not aware of any such performance tests. I doubt there would be much of a measurable difference going from stock to a short shifter, especially when you consider it takes a little while to get used to the shorter throw, but the potential is certainly there.

However, once you are proficient with a short shifter, I wouldn't be surprised to see your times go down if you moved back to a stock unit. I know that going from my GS (with the KW short shifter) to my wife's GS (pure stock), it feels like I'm rowing a boat or something!

Chris or others may have performance data I'm not aware of, but I imagine most will agree that the biggest benefit of the Hurst, B&M, or KW unit is the improved feel. It just "feels" more like a racing unit, IMHO.

Tony.96LT4

I'm with GS633 on this. I'm happy with the way my Hurst "feels". I hadn't done any racing with it till the Corvette Challenge and boy do I need practice with it. I could flat the stock unit with ease, but the Hurst, and I'll assume even though I shouldn't, the other short shifters are stiffer coming out of the gears and this is what you have to get used to. Shorter throw more resistance. I drove a buddies '92 with the stock shifter in it and it also felt like I was rowing a boat. Getting back to your question, my times didn't improve with it yet. Guess I'll have to practice more. :lol:

:flag

zrchris

Yeah Bob, these guys are right, you won't see any significant difference in outright performance of the car, unless you miss a gear that is... Some may say they can speed shift one shifter better vs another, but other than effort limits it's just a matter of adapting to it. In my car the B&M took a lot of effort, I had no hope of quickly shifting. The Hurst takes little more effort than stock, and the Kurt White kit is reasonable too. As I say above, effort difference varies in significance based on your car. Sometimes that's hard to determine until you try a shifter.

Aftermarket shifters for this and any car are more about confidence, precision, and control. They reduce the probability of missing a gear by reducing the engagement distance.

Chris

95CYC4

I liked all the replies and now I know that I am keeping my stock shifter and not going to waste my time or money. Sorry, but I feel there is nothing wrong with the stock shifter. You still have to use the clutch in these cars to shift, so you won't be able to get faster times at the track because of the shifter. If you can find a way to not use the clutch to shift, please share that with all of us. If anyone knows of any after market companies that sell 6 speeds that do not require the clutch for shifting please post the info on this thread. Thanks alot for helping me make up my mind. I missed going to the Shootout since I was getting drunk in Maryland, maybe next time, but I will be at the next EFI Shootout at E-Town, it's in October I think. I bought my Vette to race, not to go to the grocery store, so if there are any comforts that the after market shifters give you that's nice, but if they don't make your car faster or safer to shift what's the sense. That's my 2 cents and it's time for a beer..... :cheers:

zrchris

You're welcome to keep your stock shifter, but I would suggest that you try an aftermarket shifter when you come across a car with one to realize the differences. Short shifters will make shifting "safer" since they reduce the probability of missing a shift, through reduced throw and enhanced precision. "Racers" are the main market for short throw shifters and there's a clear reason why that is so.

Chris

95CYC4

I guess that "Racers" should practice shifting alot more. I guess that everyone wants instant results from their cars and don't have the time to waste getting to know the way their car reacts to different driving conditions. Have fun, but it's just like playing guitar, if someone who really knows what they are doing makes your so called junky guitar sound great was it really junky to begin with? Or were you the problem? Just something for everyone to think about. Practice makes perfect, unless your equipment is junk from the beginning. :cheers:

Justin Scherer

You guys got to get off this "quarter mile fixation". First of all, the Vette is not a quarter mile car. Any piece of crap can run a hot quarter mile with a big enough motor and light enough body. When you can see beyond that you begin to appreciate what the engineers worked so hard to create. With that said the short shifter enhances performance road course driving. Be it legal or illegal. That shifter holds you rock solid in the cockpit and lets you slam gears (while g's are slamming you). That's what a short shifter is all about.

As for everyday driving, I personally find it a thousand times better. Its awesome. And this 51 year old, skinny, computer geek can do 1-2 shifts and 3-4 shifts with the most minimal of effort. No arm movement, ONE FINGER and it flies into the next gear. How any of you can find the Ripper hard to shift is perplexing to me. You don't fight the notchiness. You work with it shifting firmly but patiently. Far less fatiguing than rowing "air" with the stock shifter. And again, the most imporant thing is the shift does not disturb your body position so you remain in the "attack" mode at all times. You stay focused on the road and the many "challenges" that are SCREAMING IN AT YOU.

As for vibration, yeah, I got some. Never noticed it until it was pointed out on this bulletin board. Its b_u_L_L_s_h_i_t minor though. If you are worried about that you should be in a Crown Vic.

Slide on!
Justin
'92 ripper & gs brakes

JasonL

95CYC4,

I agree the stock ZF shifter is pretty darn good. The only things I don't like are the loooonnngg fore-aft throws and the rubbery stops. If you have a chance to drive a car with an aftermarket shifter, even if it's not a C4, you can decide for yourself how important those features are. For me they are desireable, although it can wait until I have some more disposable cash... Try it out sometime, I think you'll like it.