why self-aligning rockers when there are guide-plates..?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
The conclusion I'm coming to is-
The slotted plates retained by the 3/8 studs that are on my 128's are there to help the factory assemble my heads when new...
If I am going to replace my rocker arms, I need SA ones if I don't change anything else...
I can fit non-SA rocker arms if I also fit special guide plates with hardened push-rods...
Bottom line is that if I replace my rockers using the existing hardware on my 128 heads, then I need Self Aligning...right?
I assume this also applies to 113's and LT1 heads...
The slotted plates retained by the 3/8 studs that are on my 128's are there to help the factory assemble my heads when new...
If I am going to replace my rocker arms, I need SA ones if I don't change anything else...
I can fit non-SA rocker arms if I also fit special guide plates with hardened push-rods...
Bottom line is that if I replace my rockers using the existing hardware on my 128 heads, then I need Self Aligning...right?
I assume this also applies to 113's and LT1 heads...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,884
Likes: 3
From: Magnolia Mississippi
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by CorvAdel
The conclusion I'm coming to is-
The slotted plates retained by the 3/8 studs that are on my 128's are there to help the factory assemble my heads when new...
so thats what i'm getting also... altho not totally sure on this one
If I am going to replace my rocker arms, I need SA ones if I don't change anything else...
If you have an 87 motor as I do and 128 heads they are alum, I don't think the question is totally answered as to SA or Non SA RR.
I can fit non-SA rocker arms if I also fit special guide plates with hardened push-rods...
Bottom line is that if I replace my rockers using the existing hardware on my 128 heads, then I need Self Aligning...right?
From the conversations, I don't think that is answered totally, which is the answer i've been looking for.... Leave all other hardware in tack and change the RR to 1.6 _ Q: SA or Non SA (which will work)
I assume this also applies to 113's and LT1 heads...
The slotted plates retained by the 3/8 studs that are on my 128's are there to help the factory assemble my heads when new...
so thats what i'm getting also... altho not totally sure on this one
If I am going to replace my rocker arms, I need SA ones if I don't change anything else...
If you have an 87 motor as I do and 128 heads they are alum, I don't think the question is totally answered as to SA or Non SA RR.
I can fit non-SA rocker arms if I also fit special guide plates with hardened push-rods...
Bottom line is that if I replace my rockers using the existing hardware on my 128 heads, then I need Self Aligning...right?
From the conversations, I don't think that is answered totally, which is the answer i've been looking for.... Leave all other hardware in tack and change the RR to 1.6 _ Q: SA or Non SA (which will work)
I assume this also applies to 113's and LT1 heads...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,884
Likes: 3
From: Magnolia Mississippi
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
Once you pull the rocker cover your question will be answered. I think it's already been answered though.
87/128 heads/ alum:
Still the question lies: Leaving all other hardware in place - can SA RR be installed with no damage?
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 4
From: Mexico Beach FL
If you didn't buy the car new, you don't know what is in there until you take it apart.
Most people on the F-body site believe that true guide-plates and non-self-aligning rockers are the stout way to go -- regardless of what was in it from the factory.
So, if you didn't buy the car new, someone could have changed it.
On another note, not that I am suggesting anyone do it, I ran true guide-plates and self-aligning stanless-steel Crower roller rockers on my '92 with AFR heads for 30K miles with no problems at all.
The Crower site states it is allowable to do this with their roller rockers.
Just to be sure, I used a feeler gauge and checked clearance on both sides of each push rod throughout the travel.
So, it can be done under the right circumstances.
Once again, I am not recommending anyone do it.
I have since pulled the guide-plates.
Tom Piper
Most people on the F-body site believe that true guide-plates and non-self-aligning rockers are the stout way to go -- regardless of what was in it from the factory.
So, if you didn't buy the car new, someone could have changed it.
On another note, not that I am suggesting anyone do it, I ran true guide-plates and self-aligning stanless-steel Crower roller rockers on my '92 with AFR heads for 30K miles with no problems at all.
The Crower site states it is allowable to do this with their roller rockers.
Just to be sure, I used a feeler gauge and checked clearance on both sides of each push rod throughout the travel.
So, it can be done under the right circumstances.
Once again, I am not recommending anyone do it.
I have since pulled the guide-plates.
Tom Piper
Last edited by Tom Piper; Aug 3, 2006 at 06:44 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by vinnies87
Still the question lies: Leaving all other hardware in place - can SA RR be installed with no damage?
RACE ON!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 7,839
Likes: 22
From: San Diego, Ca
Yes you can do away with them, but if you do so, you will need a washer or the self-aligning studs used on current production 113's (which I presume will fit your heads). There is height difference. You can or could, buy all the Factory Hardware including the non-hardened plates and the studs that work with them (if you want to keep it original) through GM Performance Parts (I just use Scoggins-Dickey www.sdpc2000.com). In fact if you call them, their tech dept will give you plenty of help and set to bed any myths or folklore you may come across about these motors.
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How about we go a step further.... ya know a "while I'm in there" mod. Buy some 7/16" studs, get hardened plates, hardened pushrods, and non-S/A rockers.
THAT would be the way to be 100% certain.
But now you have me checking my set-up and scratching my head. My trick-flow heads have realy weird BBC guides on an off set configuration SBC??? Now that they mention it i wonder if this was the cause of broken springs no-one could figgure out. I also have the gold race RR but think they are nonSA??? I hope one of the major engine builders finds this thread, Cause i want to hear a reliable definative answer also.
I know that my 87 had 128heads stock that had true guide plates and screw in studs and the wear on them when i replaced the rods looked like they were hardened. The gold race RRs worked fine on that for several years. But i don't want to say that it was 100% right???
