thermostat
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Originally Posted by ALLT4
I know, you see this a lot. I try to only offer advice on things I have REAL WORLD experience with and not spew second hand regurgitated here say as gospel.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,196
Likes: 0
From: Orlando FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
a cooler stat won't MAKE it run cooler.
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Therefore, a lower temp stat allowed it to run cooler.
Holy contradiction Batman!
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: bakersfield cali
i run 180 with four 1/8th steam holes in the summer, temps never get above 195 at 105 degrees of heat. this is with my stock fan, and a dewitts radiator. as far as the steam holes theory goes, i did becuase tpis do this to thier stat's, and recommend this in thier book, insiders hints.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
a cooler stat won't MAKE it run cooler, assuming the t-stat in there now is already wide open.
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Therefore, a lower temp stat allowed it to run cooler.
Originally Posted by GIJoe
Holy contradiction Batman!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 5
From: Howard PA
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Also, for normal, everyday, driving, those temps are really too cool for a healthy, prolonged engine life.
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I don't have anything but the bone stock cooling system. I did thoroughly clean the radiator and condenser and that may have helped.
Someone mentioned it earlier in thread about heat soak, I wonder if the 180 overloads the cooling system and it can't keep up, then the temps just go out of control at an exponential rate.
The 160 is more in line with what the system can keep up with, you know what I mean?
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
I think the "heat soak" thing is at most, transient in a running engine. Based on the tune and how it is being driven, the engine creates heat at a certain rate. The cooling system rejects heat, based on several factors. One of those factors is the difference in the temperature of the coolant and the temperature of the air on the outside of the radiator. Any "overload" in the temp of the water should rapidly dissipate when the stat open and starts to pass the coolant to the radiator.
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Originally Posted by ALLT4
Someone mentioned it earlier in thread about heat soak, I wonder if the 180 overloads the cooling system and it can't keep up, then the temps just go out of control at an exponential rate.
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by GIJoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
a cooler stat won't MAKE it run cooler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Therefore, a lower temp stat allowed it to run cooler.
Holy contradiction Batman!
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
a cooler stat won't MAKE it run cooler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
Therefore, a lower temp stat allowed it to run cooler.
Holy contradiction Batman!
No contradiction. Just because I've ALLOWED you to make a fool of yourself, doesn't mean that I MADE you make a fool of yourself. Causing something to happen is different than standing idly by and allowing it. Did YOU make the sun rise this morning???
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Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
First, your C4 seems to be more of an exception to the rule than most. Generally, C4s run hotter than the stat temp. Is that the factory radiator? The MAIN point was that a cooler stat won't MAKE it run cooler. If it runs above the stat temp now, as most do, a lower stat won't make it run any cooler. I also said the thermostat can only control the minimum temperature the engine can run, not the maximum temperature it can run. Apparently you stock 180° stat was limiting how cool your engine could run. Therefore, a lower temp stat allowed it to run cooler.
Also, for normal, everyday, driving, those temps are really too cool for a healthy, prolonged engine life.
RACE ON!!!
Also, for normal, everyday, driving, those temps are really too cool for a healthy, prolonged engine life.
RACE ON!!!
With a couple holes in the stat it ran way below 160 when outdoor temps were below about 70 degrees....that modded stat only stayed in for a month or so...
I think it is a fallacy that LT4 engines can not operate at temperatures consistent with a 160 stat.....mine did....it does take fan programming to do this under all conditions
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 5
From: Howard PA
I could say my 180 degree thermostat ALLOWED my engine to run too hot for my liking. It didn't ALLOW the coolant to circulate correctly.
My 160 degree thermostat MADE my engine run cooler, much to my liking. It MADE the coolant circulate correctly.
Let's turn it around...
I could say my 180 degree thermostat MADE my engine to run to hot for my liking. It MADE the coolant circulate incorrectly.
My 160 degree thermostat ALLOWED my engine run cooler, much to my liking. It ALLOWED the coolant circulate correctly.
There's not a whole lot of difference in these words in the context they're being used in. This is where the confusion is coming from.
My 160 degree thermostat MADE my engine run cooler, much to my liking. It MADE the coolant circulate correctly.
Let's turn it around...
I could say my 180 degree thermostat MADE my engine to run to hot for my liking. It MADE the coolant circulate incorrectly.
My 160 degree thermostat ALLOWED my engine run cooler, much to my liking. It ALLOWED the coolant circulate correctly.
There's not a whole lot of difference in these words in the context they're being used in. This is where the confusion is coming from.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
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From: The Top of Utah
The point is, and it has been expressed many times over: The thermostat does not control the maximum operating temperature. It only can control the minimum operating temperature. Once the stat is open, it has NO influence over how hot the engine can get.
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Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,770
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From: Rolla Missouri
2021 C4 of the Year - Unmodified Finalist
St. Jude Donor '10 thru '25
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
The point is, and it has been expressed many times over: The thermostat does not control the maximum operating temperature. It only can control the minimum operating temperature. Once the stat is open, it has NO influence over how hot the engine can get.
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I think the biggest problem people are seeing is not having enough airflow through the radiator to dissapate the heat that the coolant is removing from the engine. If you have a 160 temp stat, and no airflow through radiator your still gonna overheat.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
Likes: 1
From: Ottawa Ontario
Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
I have the same experience...Seems once the thermosat is opened the cooling system has a better chance at doing its job in not allowing the coolant to heat up more/as quickly. Seems once the coolant temp gets above the 200/210 mark the heat soak factor sets in and takes longer to cool down/scrub off heat.
I live in a warmer climate so Im big on cool Tstats, they just work.
Nobody will ever convince me running my car at 225 deg. is good for it. thats just too damn hot, and see a noticeable power loss too.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
oh why not
Usually I just set back an read and not chime in my two cents,
I just wanted to hit on one thing that no one has touched on; emmissions, one reason the factory has engines running hotter is due to a hotter engine burns off more emmissions, a car running at 176 degrees will no doubt have a higher emmison level than a one at stock 210 or WHAT EVER. Oh, If I am wrong on this I'm sure someone will let everyone know.
I agree with both sides here, I've always ran 160 and they always run way cooler than stock, I have (on very seldom occasions) had it where they couldn't keep up with heat exchange and ran hotter, once or twice in 20 years but I think that was in a car with out an electric fan.
I recently changed my stat as I put a new motor in, I asked for 160, the idiot at the AA Auto gave me a 180, and of course I didn't check it, as I had my computer redone, the fans were running constantly and the temp was always 198 or more, they don't run all the time now with a 160 and the temp is usually around 178, thus the motor must be running cooler.
Guess what I'm saying is use your own judgement, if you live in Arizona you might want to keep the stock temp, for me I have never been one for stock anything.
I just wanted to hit on one thing that no one has touched on; emmissions, one reason the factory has engines running hotter is due to a hotter engine burns off more emmissions, a car running at 176 degrees will no doubt have a higher emmison level than a one at stock 210 or WHAT EVER. Oh, If I am wrong on this I'm sure someone will let everyone know.
I agree with both sides here, I've always ran 160 and they always run way cooler than stock, I have (on very seldom occasions) had it where they couldn't keep up with heat exchange and ran hotter, once or twice in 20 years but I think that was in a car with out an electric fan.
I recently changed my stat as I put a new motor in, I asked for 160, the idiot at the AA Auto gave me a 180, and of course I didn't check it, as I had my computer redone, the fans were running constantly and the temp was always 198 or more, they don't run all the time now with a 160 and the temp is usually around 178, thus the motor must be running cooler.
Guess what I'm saying is use your own judgement, if you live in Arizona you might want to keep the stock temp, for me I have never been one for stock anything.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,524
Likes: 4
From: Hinckley Ohio
Originally Posted by RollaMo-LT4
That's the best explanation I've heard so far. Once the "gate" is open, the water will flow through. 160, 170, 180, ect. makes no difference.
I think the biggest problem people are seeing is not having enough airflow through the radiator to dissapate the heat that the coolant is removing from the engine. If you have a 160 temp stat, and no airflow through radiator your still gonna overheat.
I think the biggest problem people are seeing is not having enough airflow through the radiator to dissapate the heat that the coolant is removing from the engine. If you have a 160 temp stat, and no airflow through radiator your still gonna overheat.
But you are right that once the stat is open it no longer controls the temperature....but it does control the minimum...
Pro
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 749
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From: South Boardman MI
My LT1 with the stock 180* ran 192-194 underway and would kick on the fans at 227* if stuck in traffic. I made the switch to a 160* this weekend as part of a coolant flush and hose replace. I have NOT done any fan reprogramming yet.
Underway and moving the temps are now 169-172*. I haven't been in traffic enough to say if it helps but, theoreticaly, it shouldn't. I should still eventually see 227* and kick the fans on. I haven't decided yet if I'll do the reprogramming yet. The main reason for the work was the flush. The thermostat was more of an experiment.
Couldn't the reduced tempurature also have to do with the fresh coolant and flushed system?
Underway and moving the temps are now 169-172*. I haven't been in traffic enough to say if it helps but, theoreticaly, it shouldn't. I should still eventually see 227* and kick the fans on. I haven't decided yet if I'll do the reprogramming yet. The main reason for the work was the flush. The thermostat was more of an experiment.
Couldn't the reduced tempurature also have to do with the fresh coolant and flushed system?
Last edited by PreferEuroRacing; Sep 5, 2006 at 03:45 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Athens AL
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Originally Posted by PreferEuroRacing
Couldn't the reduced tempurature also have to do with the fresh coolant and flushed system?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,713
Likes: 105
From: Manassas VA
Originally Posted by PreferEuroRacing
Underway and moving the temps are now 169-172*. I haven't been in traffic enough to say if it helps but, theoreticaly, it shouldn't. I should still eventually see 227* and kick the fans on. I haven't decided yet if I'll do the reprogramming yet. The main reason for the work was the flush. The thermostat was more of an experiment.
?
This is basicially what would happen with mine. As a matter of fact, I reprogrammed my fans back to stock setting for emissions test and left the t-stat alone. Let it set still and it will heat up.