spacers, camber, caster suspension?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, PA 86 Vert w/ 89 wheels
spacers, camber, caster suspension?
i'm a noob. i started looking at my front suspension, wondering what all that stuff is.....
it looks like theres an 'A' down low, then an 'A' up high.
I noticed that the upper A has spacers, but on the drivers side I have 4 in front, while on the passenger side I have 3 in front. That doesn't seem like it would be good.
And the reason I started investigating this 'suspension stuff'? Since my car originally had smaller wheels with narrower wheels, when some previous owner switched forward to 89 wheels, which are one inch larger in diameter, and slapped 275 tread width tires on them (vs 235?) I can only assume that my cars' handling feel was affected in some negative way.
Any input on this?
it looks like theres an 'A' down low, then an 'A' up high.
I noticed that the upper A has spacers, but on the drivers side I have 4 in front, while on the passenger side I have 3 in front. That doesn't seem like it would be good.
And the reason I started investigating this 'suspension stuff'? Since my car originally had smaller wheels with narrower wheels, when some previous owner switched forward to 89 wheels, which are one inch larger in diameter, and slapped 275 tread width tires on them (vs 235?) I can only assume that my cars' handling feel was affected in some negative way.
Any input on this?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 3
From: Huntsville AL
Larger tires and wheels won't affect the handling in a negative way, it will improve things.
The discrepancy in number of spacers you see between right and left is normal on these cars. My alignment is dead even on both sides, and I have about twice as many spacers in one side as the other. Just the sloppy tolerances on these cars from the factory. If you're not having any weird driving symptoms like pulling or abnormal tire wear, I wouldn't worry about it.
If however you'd like to change the alignment to be a little more "aggressive", do a search in the Autocross and Roadracing section of the forum, TONS of info on racing or performance street alignment setups.
The discrepancy in number of spacers you see between right and left is normal on these cars. My alignment is dead even on both sides, and I have about twice as many spacers in one side as the other. Just the sloppy tolerances on these cars from the factory. If you're not having any weird driving symptoms like pulling or abnormal tire wear, I wouldn't worry about it.
If however you'd like to change the alignment to be a little more "aggressive", do a search in the Autocross and Roadracing section of the forum, TONS of info on racing or performance street alignment setups.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 202
Likes: 1
From: boise id
larger tires and whells do throw things off like your scrub radius(where the tire meets the road)! when you do this you need to get your camber and toe on front and rear wheels aligned. else everything will be off. sounds like in your case with 3 washers on one side the previous owner may have had to compensate for some front end damage, or had no clue as to what he was doing... running out of time so if you want some good info send me a message and we can probably figure whats up w/ your vette!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 15
From: backwoods upstate ny
they're spacers but they're called ''shims''... the front cradle of all cars is made below the expected final position so that it can be adjusted to correct position if accidently bent ''out'' and shims are normal on a virgin assy to get to proper alignment...3 shims on one side and 4 on the other is a feather in cap of the guys that built yours, most have a bigger difference...actually, to be that close might suggest that it has been damaged and repaired by a very competant frame monkey.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Originally Posted by illinest
i'm a noob. i started looking at my front suspension, wondering what all that stuff is.....
it looks like theres an 'A' down low, then an 'A' up high.
I noticed that the upper A has spacers, but on the drivers side I have 4 in front, while on the passenger side I have 3 in front. That doesn't seem like it would be good.
And the reason I started investigating this 'suspension stuff'? Since my car originally had smaller wheels with narrower wheels, when some previous owner switched forward to 89 wheels, which are one inch larger in diameter, and slapped 275 tread width tires on them (vs 235?) I can only assume that my cars' handling feel was affected in some negative way.
Any input on this?
it looks like theres an 'A' down low, then an 'A' up high.
I noticed that the upper A has spacers, but on the drivers side I have 4 in front, while on the passenger side I have 3 in front. That doesn't seem like it would be good.
And the reason I started investigating this 'suspension stuff'? Since my car originally had smaller wheels with narrower wheels, when some previous owner switched forward to 89 wheels, which are one inch larger in diameter, and slapped 275 tread width tires on them (vs 235?) I can only assume that my cars' handling feel was affected in some negative way.
Any input on this?
Large Impressive Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,811
Likes: 71
From: Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by arkangel81
larger tires and whells do throw things off like your scrub radius(where the tire meets the road)! when you do this you need to get your camber and toe on front and rear wheels aligned. else everything will be off. sounds like in your case with 3 washers on one side the previous owner may have had to compensate for some front end damage, or had no clue as to what he was doing...
I challenge you to find a brand new car that uses shims for alignment that would have an equal amount in all left to right locations. One shim difference is not indictative of wreck damage by any stretch. Also, many C4s came with 275s in the front and no changes are needed for their installation except the correct width wheel. 
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 202
Likes: 1
From: boise id
having different shims on side relate to accelerated wear on your ball joint, or bent components. i have been to the Hunter alignment school, & have a degree in autobody from Boise State University, and have worked on enough vettes and cars to know what is going on. a c-4 usually has been DRIVEN by this point in time, and the majority of these components are older.. beiing that it is a precision sports car i have a feeling that there is somthin' goin' on... you have two diff sets of shims on this SLA suspension on each side.. 
if you can tell us which ones are where i'm sure you will get a diagnosis from one of us sooner or later. I know im not the most 'vette know how person on this forum but i do have a clue!!
if you can tell us which ones are where i'm sure you will get a diagnosis from one of us sooner or later. I know im not the most 'vette know how person on this forum but i do have a clue!!
Large Impressive Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,811
Likes: 71
From: Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by arkangel81
having different shims on side relate to accelerated wear on your ball joint, or bent components. i have been to the Hunter alignment school, & have a degree in autobody from Boise State University, and have worked on enough vettes and cars to know what is going on. a c-4 usually has been DRIVEN by this point in time, and the majority of these components are older.. beiing that it is a precision sports car i have a feeling that there is somthin' goin' on... you have two diff sets of shims on this SLA suspension on each side.. if you can tell us which ones are where i'm sure you will get a diagnosis from one of us sooner or later. I know im not the most 'vette know how person on this forum but i do have a clue!!
if you can tell us which ones are where i'm sure you will get a diagnosis from one of us sooner or later. I know im not the most 'vette know how person on this forum but i do have a clue!!Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: Harrisburg, PA 86 Vert w/ 89 wheels
well at least i think i ought to feel comforted?
I don't really know if there's bad stuff in my car's history. I can only say that I've worked hard to bring it back from the brink. It's a symptom of my persistence (and lighter wallet) that I'm starting to look into fine tuning finally rather than endless repairs.
Back on topic. I've had the car professionally aligned and put four brand new tires on the baby recently. Sounds like the shims are just fine for me. I know the tires aren't too big to drive on, but I don't always like the highway wander, and the whole car feels very heavy at low speeds. I mean, I know it IS heavy, but my basis for comparison is mitsubishi eclipses and volkswagen gtis and i wish i could get a little of their 'lightness'
Lighter wheels?
lots of good information though. thanks all
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 3
From: Huntsville AL
Originally Posted by illinest
I know the tires aren't too big to drive on, but I don't always like the highway wander, and the whole car feels very heavy at low speeds. I mean, I know it IS heavy, but my basis for comparison is mitsubishi eclipses and volkswagen gtis and i wish i could get a little of their 'lightness'
Lighter wheels?
Drive it really really fast, the steering will lighten up a bit
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 202
Likes: 1
From: boise id
what im saying is that on the rear or front suspension the sides may not be the same to compensate for wear, the way you drive, the course you drive on, and the fact that no vehicle is built with perfect dimensions, etc. the only things that really matter is that all the degrees are correct to get you going down the road safely.
now about the vette in question the only thing limiting us at this point would be to look at it in person on the alignment rack.
now about the vette in question the only thing limiting us at this point would be to look at it in person on the alignment rack.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 15
From: backwoods upstate ny
the racks that GM built for a lot of their mid-80's vehicles , including the corvette, have an internal plastic bearing that roughs up the rack housing...as the rack gets rougher, steering effort goes up...might eventually lock up, but i've never heard of that happening...GM has never taken responsibilty for this as far as i know --anybody know of a TSB or recall ??
''test drive'' a couple other vettes to see if you need a rebuilt rack.
correct tire pressure IS required for handling and tire wear...if you have the SAME SIZE tires front and rear, and can sacrifice a bit of handling and tire life, run your front tires 2 or 3 psi below the rears to reduce ''wander''
''test drive'' a couple other vettes to see if you need a rebuilt rack.
correct tire pressure IS required for handling and tire wear...if you have the SAME SIZE tires front and rear, and can sacrifice a bit of handling and tire life, run your front tires 2 or 3 psi below the rears to reduce ''wander''
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Originally Posted by illinest
Back on topic. I've had the car professionally aligned and put four brand new tires on the baby recently. Sounds like the shims are just fine for me. I know the tires aren't too big to drive on, but I don't always like the highway wander, and the whole car feels very heavy at low speeds. I mean, I know it IS heavy, but my basis for comparison is mitsubishi eclipses and volkswagen gtis and i wish i could get a little of their 'lightness'
Lighter wheels?
lots of good information though. thanks all
Last edited by edcmat-l1; Oct 28, 2006 at 01:36 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 15
From: Wallingford Vermont
The roads you travel can have a big effect on wander. There's a stretch on RTE 2 in Mass where trucks have worn big grooves (ruts) in the pavement. With the early Z51 specs (alot of caster) it's a two fisted white knuckle ride. 'Change lanes and the Vette wants to LAUNCH into that direction
Thankfully it's only bad for a few miles.
'Change lanes and the Vette wants to LAUNCH into that direction Thankfully it's only bad for a few miles.
