Ok, now that that is understood - try setting it at 45-47 with it off - the spray pattern may improve, and clear up some of the rich condition

 

Humm, 45 psi is were I set it vac off to get 40 psi vac on...previously with same exhaust smell.

 

I was just thinking about this and another thought ocurred to me:

Perhaps your injectors are really bigger than the indicated 24 lbs./hr.

I don't know how to identify them, other than by flow testing, but maybe you wound up with 30 lb. injectors or something?

I guess I would try increasing the injector constant until the blms start to fall in line. I would try a couple of big changes first and try to bracket the behavior. Maybe try 26 lbs/hr or 30 lbs/hr and check the response.

Another approach that could be done in parallel with the injector constant increase, would be to reduce the blm lower limit of 108 in the tune to see how far it really needs to go down.

This would give you an idea of how rich it really is. At 108, all you know is that it is pegged at the lower limit value. Drop this down to something like 88 to double the normal range of adjustment.

For the first crack at it, I would try both changes, then adjust from there based on where the blms wind up.

 

First of all, thanks to all that have post to help me.

tequilaboy, this is a good thought. I will have to contact Alvin and see what he can do. On the order sheet I stated I had the 24 lb Accel injectors and though that way the adapter could be tuned to reflect the correct constant. Like you say I might have recieved a larger injector than what I ordered from Jeg's. I still have the box and will look at the part numbers to make sure. I installed them in Feb and have been through the ropes trying to figure this thing out.

I have never tried to erase/burn chips and would not even know where to begin so I left it up to the pro's. A lot of the things you post are Greek to me.

 

I agree with you Pat in first bringing up the inj. constant and that works (globally), but he doesn't say if he has the gear(emulator) to do any real adjusting/tuning.
RRT, If you do have some gear it's going to be time to either go through the cells, inj. constant (min.)or swap back in some 22#'s. Bottom line it's pig rich, if it's a mail tune datalog it and send it back for some tweaking.

As to the earlier post, I don't agree that bringing up the FP will ultimately lower blm's, my experience shows the exact opposite and at 40-42 w/line off shouldn't effect the pattern that drastically. Bottomed at 108, would require quite a bit of reduction in FP (not the answer)to make it come around.

 

mseven, I don't have the "gear" to do this and would have to learn how to make the changes. I live with in 2 hr drive from Craig Moates and might be willing to haul the car to him. Problem is I would have to drive 2 hr in the opposite direction to borrow my fathers car hauler and possibly replace a tire or two.

Gas money/possible buying tires plus having Craig look at it "vs" purchasing 22lb injectors and installing myself "vs" trying to datalog and send it to Alvin for a hit/miss.

None are win/win.

 

with that, and if the 22's were that on the money with a scan, that would be the simplest soultion. However in MO Criag knows what he is doing and so does Alvin, if you have bucks out in the tune letting Alvin tweak on it sure wouldn't cost any more, just the time.
In the end, I think you would stand to gain over a stock tune using timing, and afr calculations (both power enrich and closed loop)that were originally based on a chasis dyno.

 

Well there is no guarantee that the 22lb will help the situation, but it should.

I emailed Alvin about the tune and will give him a call in the next few days. I figured it would cost to have him work on it again.

Since my laptop is down, I could let Craig datalog it for me and I can sent the results to Alvin.

Thanks for the input.

 

Well Alvin seems to think I have a preexisting problem making my rich condition. It might and might not be. There are a few things that I need to check that I missed. My exhaust system is comprised of stock y-pipes with the precats gone, a "supposed" hollow stock looking cat, and Dynomax mufflers.

1. condition of the catalytic converter.
2. clean the MAF
3. try the suggestions SunCr suggested with the EECS system vac lines and checking BLM's.
4. checking cylinder compression

My mother is coming here for Thanksgiving and I will see if she can bring her laptop so I can take a look at everything after the piggyback tune. I will post some results after.

 

Does the instant mileage show you are using a lot of fuel at drive speeds?
Just wondering if this is only idle related.

 

Sorry unable to give that info. That part of the digital dash doesn't work.

I checked the orignal box today for my Accel injectors. Part # 150824 and it says 24lb/hr. I just I would have to actually get the numbers off the injectors to be totally correct.

 

Can't remember off hand. Which bin. filename should I use with the 88 ECM (ARAP, AYPY, or neither)?

Is it the $32B Mask ID and the 1227165 ECM?

Can I datalog with TunerPro RT?

 

I don't recall or have available a Diacom trace of my early, iron head 86 to compare but what do you guys think about his injector pulse width?

What if this turned out to be only a vacuum leak down stream of the MAF, causing the 02 to send LEAN signals to the ECM. The ECM would then increase injector pulse width trying to compensate for what it thought was a lean condition.

Have you checked all the vacuum hoses for proper connection and condition?

Have you tried the fluid test method to find any vacuum leak?

Last time I had 108s on my 86E it was because I'd inadvertently left one of the injector "O" rings in the intake manifold when I swapped injectors. That second "O" ring created a vacuum leak and sent my Diacom readings every which way.

Took quite a while to track down and the engine ran like sh** in the meantime. The garden hose water method pin-pointed it.

Jake

 

Vacuum leaks and any air that gets in after the MAF will produce lean BLM'S. This one is rich. The ECM is subtracting fuel (albeit probably not enough) whereas if the BLM's were lean, it would be adding it.

Pulse width, as a performance parameter is meaningless. As injectors wear, they can get a little longer, but temp, load and host of other variables will make duplicating anything too much of a challenge.

This vehicle had the problem before anything was changed. BLM's this rich on a stock vehicle are best diagnosed using the diagnostic aids for a 45. You can rule out the injectors and fuel pressure - they've been addressed. That leaves the MAF - just run it without it connected and see what the BLM's do; a satutuated Canister - plug the TB or remove it and see if there's fuel in it; a leaking cold start injector - at least unplug the grounding switch - I think you'll have to remove it to see if it's dripping; and electrical noise being picked up as reference pulses (I've never seen it on anything, but if the car is tired, I guess there's a possibility). As to the satuated oil - the fumes are sucked back in through PCV which makes it rich, so at some point, you'll need to change it - but I don't see that as the source of the problem, just a symptom. The final item might be the ECM. Nothing gathered to date shows it's doing anything other than what it's programmed to do and you allready know it's capable of spitting out Codes.

 

So then, what you're saying is I've got it backwards, right?

That 108 BLMs indicate the ECM pulling fuel out because the 02 is indicating a rich mixture. When it reaches 108, that's as far as it can go.

Okay, so if that's the case, shouldn't the Intergrator values also be a lot lower than what he's seeing?

Another thought: Could his cold start injector be contributing to the rich condition? Could it be adding fuel, maybe through leakage, even after the engine has started and is running?

Jake

 

Pretty much - Lean, the ECM adds fuel. Rich, it takes it away.
Any air that gets to the O2 without going through the MAF is going to trick the ECM into thinking it's lean. The ECM adds fuel it doesn't need; it only needs what's coming in through the MAF. You end up with a rich mix, but the ECM keeps adding fuel because the O2 is telling it that it's lean. Garbage in, Garbage out.

If the O2 senses too much fuel, BLM's below 128, it takes fuel out. It can't take out fuel that's coming in from a source other than the fuel injectors, including the Cold Start Injector (it doesn't control it, a thermoswitch does). Nor can it control broken injectors, or a busted Canister Purge Solenoid or a Canister that's full of fuel and for the Evaporative Emissions Control System, there's no trouble code. The ECM may know that it hasn't commanded purge (ie, the voltage has risen to battery when it should be at 0, but it wasn't designed to communicate this to the Technician. You have to troubleshoot it with a test light). It also has a pretty hard time dealing with a MAF that's reporting more (or less air flow) than what's actually flowing through it. Again, garbage in, garbage out.

It is confusing that the Integrator or short term fuel trim was recorded at 128. However, that's a snapshot and with the nose indicating a rich tune, I'm more inclined to let the BLM guide my instincts. I think if you follow the Diagnostic Aids for a 45, you'll pinpoint the cause. I'd also do this with the original Tune and probably fresh oil. Get it right stock and the mods can follow.

 

Update: Today I went to visit my family. I picked up the car hauler and brought it home with me. My mom is coming tomorrow and she is bringing here laptop so I will try and run the scan again and try the suggestions above. I am going to attempt to datalog with TunerPro RT as well.

 

I scanned the 86E with the 88 ECM today. I watched the BLM's with the MAF disconnected and plugged the EECS vac to TB. With the MAF disconnected the BLM's went up to 140's and no change with the EECS to TB plugged/

Here are some numbers while driving and letting off throttle. This is where the scan stopped working. The MAF was connected here and the EECS was disconnected from the TB.

TPS .55V
Coolant temp 182.75*
Starting temp 150.35*
Battery Voltage 13.8v
RPM 1400
NV/ratio 28 rpm/mph
MAF 9.11 g/sec
Load variable 31
Runtime 545 sec
Target AFR 14.73
O2 sensor 870.24 mv ( the scan froze showing this number)
INT 125
BLM 108
Nae Learn Cell 2
Inj Base Pulse Width .81 msec

The car drives and runs good. It is a little down on power such as take off. I am unable to get the wheels to spin on take off. As for now I am only interested in getting the exhaust smell normal. It is a very potent rich smell.

I was going to datalog but unable to get the 32b mask to download and the record button would not work.

 

I'm not exactly sure what tune you're running, but with your BLM's running back to Lean with the MAF disconnected, I'd try to find another MAF. Otherwise, think you still need to make sure that the Cold Start isn't dribbling fuel into the intake and an oil change would help.

 

I think we're all over looking those knock counts too...207 is way out whack, he has to be pulling timing. I've mentioned code 45 before...because you can have some of the problems that may/maynot
actually throw the code, which includes both the MAF and the Canister, and I'd check the canister first for fuel saturation.

BTW, you've got iron heads right? what spark plugs are you running?