95BLKVette

Yes, you're right, I've been on the sidelines much too long, although I had been watching the posts now and then about you guys over the past two years.

Once I get my tranny fixed I should be up for a little fun with it don't you think?

0Chuck CoW

You should come down here and I'll take you for a ride in one of the last 4L60e cars that I built....I build em REAL NICE!

Chuck CoW

95BLKVette

Dear Chuck,

As you know, my Vette is in the middle of open heart surgery and there's no possible way I could leave "The Beast" to come down and take a ride in another Vette, she might drop dead from the shock

Since you are so knowledgible, why don't you shed a little light on my problem in this public C4 Forum so we can all benefit, without giving up any of your secrets of course.

You still haven't told me weather you spoke with Dennis or not...a simple yes would make me feel a whole lot more at ease.

BTW, I can still use a custom tune....what do you charge for something like my signature?

0Chuck CoW

Dennis never called me..... There are no secrets....All the stuff is available from TRANSTAR....But, the builder has alot to do with it.....

Some of the parts I outlined for you on the phone the other day should definately be included....

Chuck CoW

95BLKVette

Tranny Rebuild estimate came in at $3,500 Parts + Labor

I don't think so, as thsi was rebuilt twice and last time many hard parts were replaced with performance as noted in my page 1 detailed thread.

I've priced it on a speadsheet and item for item compared the builder agaist raptor retail parts and I demonstrate price should be more like $2,500 and faxed it to my builder.

We talked and he's resharpening his pencil.

I'd love to post a scan of my comparison estimate for comparative purposes.....maybe some of you guys will really think I'm nuts then

For example, I had a 13 vane kit put in the last time and they opened the pump and saw some minor scoring of the back cover and therefore don't trust the valving in the pump....want to replace it with an in house rebuilt blueprinted pump for $439 This to me is excessive, since I can get a rebuilt 13 vane Raptor for around $235

Later !

Pete K

Toss the 13 vane pump and go back to 10 vane. They are better units. No need to change the entire pump. Only the slide, rotor and rotor guide. Minor scoring is typical. Heavy scoring scraps the pump 1/2. Used pumps are readily available and rebuildable. $400+ dollars for a pump is excessive. $150 is typical.

95BLKVette

I agree with you totally Pete

Chuck, your opinion iwould be greatly appreciated

And as promised, I've scanned the Aamco estimate I was faxed today, (important personal info deleted of course). I also have posted two comparative spread sheet cost analyses I did.....they compare the same estimate using Aamco labor and Raptor Retail Priced Parts for Comparison....as you can see they are really marking up the parts ...53%

Please Comment

Please don't laugh too hard







Note at the bottom of each spreadsheet estimate that I faxed back to my builder that I was seriously considering just having my car flat bedded back and either ordering and installing a new raptor myself or rebuilding the existing tranny

95BLKVette

Come on, there are tons of automatic owners out there, and unfortunately you've either been in or will be in a similar circumstance eventually

Pete K

Even at this stage of my life, I could not afford a $3500 transmission. I could not imagine having to pay that much money. I get my nutz busted for charging $350 labor to bench a 4l60.

0Chuck CoW

It looks like alot of FLUFF to me, but look hard at what you've done....

Youv'e taken your hot rod to a "franchise" tranny shop.....First mistake.

While it is possible that there is a qualified builder there who KNOWS how to properly build the unit for your application.....THERE IS NO WAY he has the experience that a specialty shop has with this sort of thing.

ALSO, you have to realize there there are no "Corvettes of Westchester" commercials on the big network TV stations. Likely $1,000. bucks worth of parts markup is paying for TV commercials and franchise fees to AAMCO.

I might also charge you the same or a "similar" price, but rest assured that you will leave my facility with a far better product than any franchise shop could possibly deliver.

I don't build one or two hot rod 4L60's a year. I probably build 2 dozen race units a year.

Just because the price is the same....dosen't mean the job is the same. You can not shop price with jobs like this that are so very complex......You can compare apples and oranges at the supermarket....shopping price there makes sense.

One last thing that comes to mind.....I would never give an itemized price list for a job like yours..... ask me to give you a price to build you a house....and you'll get a price. No builder would ever list all the nails, screws, borards, and shingles on an estimate either. It just dosen't work that way.......

Call me if you need help.
Chuck CoW

95BLKVette

Dear Chuck,

I spoke to my builder this morning, and he is very willing to work with me. We had a good dialogue back and forth and he understands that I won't stand for any .

That said, he also undestands that I'm looking at a ceiling of $2,500 on this repair.

I'm rather surprised at your statement regarding a breakdown of the costs for your work. I'm an engineer that works as a marine construction project manager. I deal on a daily basis with estimating and bidding. To state that you do not reveal the details of what you are doing and what you are charging for each of your services sounds more like the "Fluff" that you are inferring others are doing

Don't get me wrong on this, it just doesn't seem to correlate with your other statements. Grant it an expert is entitled to higher compensation based on his level of expertise, but I feel that should be reflected in your labor rate and not in the cost of parts.

Anyone else agree with me on this just chime right in

It would be great if we could all go to the same local transmission / speed shop for tuning and tranny rebuilds at a reasonable price. The forum would be a great place to come up with a survey and points grading system that could be used to rate paticipating vendors similar to what is done on Ebay for example. If you're a quality vendor that does quality work, it would be great advertising with little expense on your part.

I totally dislike smoke and mirrors, and it seems that there are tons of snake oil salesmen out there that each of us must deal with to service our hard earned pride and joy, don't you all agree?

That is why I mostly do all my own work except for the automatic, which may well also be added to my list of skills in the near future.

I know I'm going to get a ton af repsonses on my last statement about how complicated an automatic high performance tranny build is, buy you've got to start somewhere

Pete K

A high performance trans build is only slightly harder than a standard rebuild. The same attention to detail shoud be used on both. The parts are different, and the blueprinting takes time, but not much more than a chevy van build. I would estimate that I spend 4 hrs extra on a "high performance" build. 2 of the 4 hours are invested in the transgo kit.

95BLKVette

I totally respect your honesty Pete! Thank-You.

Maybe a Pennsylvania relocation is in my future

So what's the problem with the rest of you so-called experts out there cat got your tongue I see...Daaaaa

lefoy84

Ship it to Pete!

95BLKVette

Exactly !

Now if you've read my thread, if we had a system that his Forum Customers scored Pete's work they had done then I and a whole bunch of people just may send Pete a ton of performance rebuild work.

Is anyone on the same page with me here?

Mr Mojo, as moderator, is there a way to bring this idea up wth forum management, or would it be better for me to start a survey post on this subject?

Aggravated4life

You get robbed in NY...am I seeing 14 hours for labor on that sheet?

Pete K

That is the only part of the bill that looks fair to me. I spend 15-20 hours to go completely through one. I am not a pro, and 3-4 hours are probably spent on cleaning. Because Aamco likely used jet sprayer cabinets to clean and dry the parts, the labor time becomes comparable.

Pete K

I would like to toss out an opinion or 2.
1) I noticed the hardened input shaft on the bill. This is not the solution to your problem. The input shaft is steel and is pressed in into an aluminum drum. The frictions and steels reside in the drum and are actuated by pistons, then returned by spring packs.The hardened drum will do nothing to the aluminum.It will only harden the shaft. Long story short, save your money on this.
2) I have never (yet) seen a beast reaction shell break. $70 allows you to save $40 and the builder can make a few bucks on the part.
3) Aftermarket planetaries are weaker than factory 4 pinion units. I have yet to see a factory 4 pinion planetary break. If you are using GM 5 pinion planetaries, fine. But it will add $00+ dollars to the build. Money you do not need to spend. Based on the price list, they are probably going to install aftermarket 5 pinions. If true, this is a step in the wrong direction.
4) ditch the 13 vane pump and go back to the 10 .Be sure to use gm parts. Used is fine. Aftermarket pump parts are weak and break from time to time. You do not need a new pump for this. The pump rotor, guide, ring and vanes are all that is needed. The can be robbed from the last pump that the sold to a customer because the pump 1/2 was "scored up"
I did not add it up, but these tips put over 1k back in your pocket, and in my opinion gives you a better job.

Aggravated4life

Cool,Didnt know it took that much time to go through a unit.Thought it was alot less than that.

I used lived in the NY area hes at...dang expensive as compared to here...lol..im glad I got out of there...trans work down here is cheaper by about 1,000 bucks or so.Cost of living area adjustment is refelcted in alot of things you pay for,but jeez!They make you PAY in NY shops.

95BLKVette

Dear Pete,

The inner Forward Clutch Retainer aluminum lands in my drum is what caused me to loose 1st gear. Im getting the hardened drum to prevent that from happening again as well as having a new AFL valve sleeve (ream alum valve body using special jig) install new sleeve and new AFL valve. Also thought a beast reaction shell with new bearing would be a good idea.

There are two trends of thought on the 5 vs 4 planetaries, I prefer the 5 as the load is spread out to an additional shaft and gear.

Pump case was original w/ 129K on it...just changed the guts to new 13 vane last time...IMO it's time for a reworked pump assy.

I've talked him down to not exceeding $2,500 with everything that was mentioned before included.