Friday afternoon my car wouldn't start when I stopped to get gas. Turn the key on, fuel pump runs, try to start and .... nothing. No click, nothing. I have a new starter that was put on about a month ago. So I figured must be dead battery. The volts on the guage looked a little lower than normal, and I checked for a vats code and there wasn't one. So I called the wife to bring some jumper cables. I had her bring her keys too, just to make sure it wasn't my key acting up. Her key didn't work so we put the cables on. The car started right away. On the way home, I noticed the volts pretty low, and the battery light came on, so I thought it was just a dead alternator. Bought a new (not rebuilt) alternator, put it on, and now the volts run about 14.6 all the time with the car running. Saturday I drive about 45 miles from home, and when I get ready to come home, the car wouldn't start. Same thing as Friday... no click, no vats code, no nothing. The volts on the guage looked low again so I thought maybe the battery isn't taking a charge. I just bought the car a few months ago, so I don't know how old the battery is, but it looks brand new. It's a Delco battery. A guy getting gas in a Jeep tries to give me a jumpstart, but it wouldn't do anything. No click, nothing. I tell him thanks and that I'll have to figure out what it is. I sit there about 15 or 20 minutes looking at the stupid car, and the volts still look low (about 9 or 10 on the idiot guage) so I look for another person to help me start the car. A nice guy in a Cobra mustang gives me a jump. The car starts right away this time. I get home and park it for the night. Today, after it has been sitting a good 14 hours, I check the voltage with my dvm and it shows 12.6 on the battery before trying to start the car. I put the key in and the car starts right up. WTF? So I'm thinking there is nothing wrong with the battery and I'm gonna have to figure this out the hard way.

Anybody have any ideas?!?!?


[Modified by Marcho Polo, 6:27 PM 9/30/2001]

 

This is spretty strange.

I am only giving suggestions from my own expierence. I have a 90 as well, and it did things to me like you describing.

I had many different dealing with this problem. one tiome I shut it off, it would not start up about 5 mins later. I pulled the battery cable, it fired right up after reconnecting. Later it would not start for 10 mins, later it was 15 mins, then 20 mins, then it would not start again. The starter was the problem the whole time.

I know you have a new one, but I would consider that it might be a POS.

I would suggest you clean all the connections, and put a heat shield around the starter.

If you get a chance, keep the volt meter with you at all times. Also go take the car out for a spin and come back home, shut it down, wait a few mins and try to restart it. see if you can see if heat soaking the starter is the problem.

 

I thought about that.... the starter is an Autozone lifetime warranty starter so it could very well be POS.

I've also been told to check the positive post on the Delco battery. I think I've heard that before, too... that they break internally sometimes.

I've got the volt meter on it now to see if the battery drains any... it's been solid on 12.76 for a couple hours now after running for a few minutes.

I guess the starter could be sensitive to heat, but it was like 60 degrees last night when I drove around and it died..... wouldn't the cold weather help keep it cooler?

 

Not sure about the cool weather, pre owner cut the cats off my car, then they were refitted to sell to me, not sure how the stock cats look, but is the passenger side pre cat near the starter on yours?

 

pre-cat is right there! Don't know what condition they're in.....

Can I make a shield out of aluminum or something and just place it in there somewhere? Or would local speed shops carry that kind of item?

 

You might have an ign sw problem where the contacts that make with the pellet is wearing out. If the VATS module doesn't read the resistance of the pellet, then the start enable relay does not close and complete the circuit to the starter solenoid. The contacts come down the steering column on my 87 (don't know about a 90) and under the carpet there is a 2 pin connector. Unplug the connector and measure the resistance of the wires coming from the steering column with the key inserted. It should be the same as your pellet . If not, its new ignition switch time. I drive my car every day (172k)and it has ign sw #3 in it. You can make up a resistor the same value as your pellet and clip it onto the wires going to the passenger side (VATS module) and drive the car until you can get the switch replaced. I recommend that you do not bypass the VATS because 99% of stolen vehicles are stolen by breaking the column and jumping the ignition. I know vette owners that found their car broken into and the column busted, but their car not moved an inch.
I believe on my 87 , after 3 tries you have to wait 6 minutes before the ECM will allow another start attempt. When the car won't start is the best time to measure the ign sw contact wires to see if the pellet is being measured.

 

I picked up the heat wrap blanket from summit. Most speed shops will have that sort of thing. I double wrapped mine with 2 blankets.

As for the Vats and the key pellet, that is something to consider as well.

have you tried going for a drive for about 15 mins, come back home and shut it down then restart?

 

jfb,

I burned a new chip tonight and disabled vats to see if that helps.


bill,

I'll be driving it to work tomorrow, so I'll see if it gets hot. I live 4 miles from work, so it's not far for the wife to pick me up if it dies!

 

Hey buddy!
Ive an idea to check, go make sure all the wires are fuly tightned on the starter itself..Ive seen this happen on other cars that had loose wiring..might be a little off the symptoms you have, but doesnt hurt to be sure.
Ive also seen a starter do this when the nut fell off the solenoid and the wire would moe back and forth and wouldnt always "start" .
Let us know what ya find out.

 

Hey Bill!

I was thinking of doing that.... I put the starter in myself, and it's possible that they have loosened up! I just didn't have time to troubleshoot this weekend, so I'm gonna drive it to work tomorrow and wait for it to strand me again, then I can try to zero in on the problem.

 

Update:

Started up fine this morning. Before touching the car, I checked the battery with the dvm and it was at 12.76 volts. The drive to work is only 10 minutes, so I don't know if that would be long enough to heat the starter up. When I got to work and shut it down it started back up just fine. I'll drive it more at lunch and see if it will die again....

 

I had a problem on my 78 Z28 a few years ago that sounds a little similar. After the car was warmed up, if I'd shut it down and immediately try to start it, it would turn the car over so slow that it wouldn't start for about a second, and then just stop. I'd wait a bout 5 or 10 minutes, and it would fire right up. Originally I thought it was my starter overheating. Someone suggested to me it was the battery......I thought yeah, right :rolleyes: . It got to the point that I'd have to wait 30-45 minutes in order to get the car started again. I learned to live with it as I mostly only used the 78 to go to and from work. One day the battery was completely dead when I went to go home after work. Replaced the battery and problem never occurred again.

 

I dont believe this, my car just did the same thing just now, it is probably 90* out, stopped to get food, got in the car, turned the key, nothing. I have full power in the battery too.

Disconnected my negative batt cable, re-connect it, turn the key, no start, push a tiny bit harder on the key, it cranks over. Got back to work, shut it down, starts right back up. Think maybe my ingnition switch is going out.

 

Sorry Bill! I didn't mean to jinx us!!!!

My car has been running fine all day. I even purposely let it idle outside to get nice and warm. I haven't been able to get it to duplicate the problem yet today. That's okay with me.... but it will creep up on me when I'm miles away from home, which won't be fun.

The only thing I've done so far is disable vats in the chip. But I'm wondering if maybe my ignition switch is going bad as well.... don't know.

 

Sometimes dirt gets into the ignition switch and dosn't alow the pellet to make contact. Disconnect the batt and spray electronic parts cleaner into the ignition switch. Give it a while to dry and try to start it. You could also have a bad connection somewhere, maybe corrosion buildup. My problem was the connector on the distributor for the batt. The little plastic clip lock was broken off and the connector kept loosening up. Good luck. :cheers: