what do ya'll think about this on my L83? along with some 1.6:1 roller rockers and new head's?

Brand: Holley
Product Line: Holley SysteMAX Street Systems for Small Chevy
Engine Block Style: Stock/OEM standard deck
Intake Style: Dual plane
Basic Operating RPM Range: Idle-7,200 RPM
Intake Material: Aluminum
Intake Finish: Natural
Carburetor Flange: Square bore
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218 int./218 exh.
Advertised Duration: 268 int./268 exh.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.457 int./0.457 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Timing Chain Style: Double roller


what will this do for power?

 

will it work?

 

are you converting to a carb? cause thats a carburated intake in that kit...

with a stock untouched crossfire top end...you're basically punching yourself in the nuts by installing the rest of the kit...

now a ported intake/X-RAM with larger TB's/injectors, an ECM like the 7747 with HAM and PROMinator...really opens up the options and you'll get some decent performance out of that kit if you go with it...however with the other mods, you will be able to tune the engine yourself. i'd opt for a better set of heads and a bigger cam...

dont forget the long-tubes or you're choking whatever you decide to install...

will the kit work? yes
will you get the power advertised with the untouched crossfire inj? no
power increases with the stock crossfire? i dunno - ~40-60hp between cam and heads? not sure on this one - intake will CHOKE it
power increases with modified intake system - much more
will you need to tune it? most definitely - will need 7747/HAM/PROMinator either way

 

no i want to keep it FI, and stock looking. i will be doing more bottom end before i am done with the engine.what head's would you reccomend? i also want 1.6 roller rockers. also what cam would you reccomend? i am going to get some longtube header's... where can i get the PROM you are talking about

 

ok, to keep it stock looking you will need to either pursue an X-RAM or port your stock intake - this will provide the most gain for least cash (porting the stock intake)...

at this point if you go with bigger heads and a bigger cam, 2" or larger throttle bodies and 454 injectors would come into play.

before you even go through modifying the TB's and injectors i would invest in getting the 7747/8746 ECM swapped in. these can be found for cheap on ebay and other places. you will need to send it to bill at this website: http://www.speedtronics.net/aboutprominator.asp

he will install the HAM (harness adapter so it plugs into stock wiring) and the PROMinator (allows you to upload your own computer tunes via parallel cable) - he will be able to fill you in on that end of things.

you will need to learn about tuning yourself or seek out someone experienced in 7747/8746/self tuning of some kind to help out. it's kind of a DIY thing but there's plenty of peple here that can help you out...

as far s what cam and heads - that depends on what you're doing to the bottom end and what power you're looking for. some of the crane compucam camshafts will work with stock ECM's but are relatively mild. the ECM mods will allow you to compensate for just about anything (within reason) so that removes a big bottleneck right off the bat and opens up a world of possibilities...

best combo? we have a few crossfire 383cid motors running around. i would consult with elkabong here or at the crossfire injection vault. also geeky_bill is the one that does the PROMinator. ben73 also has the fastest naturally aspirated 383 crossfire motor currently...they can offer a world of advice on what to do. it all depends on where you want to go...

I'd say a good set of AFR heads (180cc), a cam with at least ~.525 lift, ported stock intake, 2"+ TB's and 454 injectors with the 7747/8746 and HAM/PROMinator will give you a nice little screamer...but your transmission will likely go long before that point... the 700R4 automatic is notoriously weak and the 4+3 manual isnt much better

 

this is the route i would like to go, i doubt that i will be puting it in a Vette, this is a spare engine and i will use it on the track at the local speedway. do you know what kind of power this combo would make at the wheel's? thank you for all of your help.

 

power at the rear wheels is too hard to guess...

i'd say if you put the AFR heads on with a good cam and a single plane intake with about a 750cfm carb (since its a spare motor not going in the vette you have no worries...go carb)...add the longtube headers for whatever chassis it's in and you should have ~400hp at the crank if well built and around 11:1 compression...you'd likely have more, but i'd rather not inflate your hopes...400hp would be a good number...

alot of my time is spent crunching the numbers in desktop dyno and reading every hotrod type magazine with engine dyno tests...

the key is making sure the motor is balanced...well balanced...that is the key to making power...also, the 4 C's are the big ones...Cam, Cylinder heads, Cubes, and Compression...this is where you will make BIG numbers naturally aspirated. everything else is trivial...making the big 4 matched and balanced takes alot of careful research such as chassis, total car weight, gearing, intended use, what tires, auto/stick, and on and on and on...

generally bigger is better as far as cubic inches is concerned. if you have the cash...bore and stroke that 350 to a minimum 383...396 is also doable, and i'm working on formulating a plan for a stock 350 based 414 stroker...

as you up the cubes you must make sure to select the right heads and cam to feed it. Also, for strip only usage the compression depends on wether or not you wanna boost it, run race gas or pump gas, etc...most of my ideas would keep a motor around 11:1 for street use or 13:1 for race gas/track use only. lower if i'd plan on using boost...but always forged...do not cheap out on the rotating assembly and machine work.

here is one dyno test in particular you might be interested i. these are crank HP ad TQ figures...taken from this site: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7610/dyno.htm

=============

Lingenfelter 383, from his book- Modifying Small Block Chevy Engines.

350 block .030 over

Cast 400 crank

Production 5.565" 400 rods

Sealed power forged pistons

Lingenfelter hydraulic roller cam: 219/219 @ .050, .525/.525 lift. 112deg lobe sep, Comp Cams 1.6 ratio stainless steel rocker arms.

Ported aluminum 'Vette heads with 2.00/1.56" valves.

SuperRam intake, base, and 58mm throttle body.

1-3/4" headers were used for the test.

RPM TQ HP
1600 363 110
2000 375 143
2500 411 196
3000 424 242
3500 466 310
4000 476 362
4500 481 412
5000 458 436
5250 446 442
5500 416 435
6000 372 425

============

that was a fuel injected version using a super ram...here is a carbed one with different parts:

=========

Hot Rod/Summit 383, from Hot Rod March 1992

350 block, .030 over

3.75" stock 400 crank

5.7" production rods

Keith Black Hypereutectic Pistons, Compression 9.5:1

Crane Cams hydraulic cam; 236/246 @ .050, .510/.512" lift, 112deg lobe sep

AFR 190cc aluminum heads, 80cc chambers, 2.02/1.60" valves

Crane Cams aluminum roller rocker arms; 1.6 intake, 1.5 exhaust

Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake mainfold, Holley 750 double pumper carb

1-3/4" headers

RPM TQ HP
2500 355 169
2750 362 189
3000 388 221
3250 399 247
3500 398 265
3750 404 288
4000 413 314
4250 417 337
4500 429 368
4750 435 393
5000 424 404
5250 427 427
5500 419 438
5750 411 450
6000 381 435

=================

that one used AFR 190cc heads and makes good power...all 450hp of it. 400hp with the 180's and a bump in compression should be doable.

 

Lingenfelter 383, from his book- Modifying Small Block Chevy Engines.

350 block .030 over

Cast 400 crank

Production 5.565" 400 rods

Sealed power forged pistons

Lingenfelter hydraulic roller cam: 219/219 @ .050, .525/.525 lift. 112deg lobe sep, Comp Cams 1.6 ratio stainless steel rocker arms.

Ported aluminum 'Vette heads with 2.00/1.56" valves.

SuperRam intake, base, and 58mm throttle body.

1-3/4" headers were used for the test.

RPM TQ HP
1600 363 110
2000 375 143
2500 411 196
3000 424 242
3500 466 310
4000 476 362
4500 481 412
5000 458 436
5250 446 442
5500 416 435
6000 372 425

i like this one and i think i will try to replicate his results...

with forged parts all around

 

remember that that test was basically a modified TPI fuel injected motor...using a carb will yield different results especially if you use a single plane intake. expect those results to take away a little bit of that bottom end punch but replace it with additional HP up top...

you can get a complete forged 383 kit from either summit, jegs, or a number of other places. i'd decide right now wether or not to keep it 9.5:1 or not...that compression is great for boost, but if you're staying n/a do not hesitate to get a stroker kit that will bump the compression to 11:1 or so...then since its forged you can always add nitrous later without too many adverse affects...

 

Id use the 1-5/8 headers and the 180 heads, watch your numbers skyrocket over the ported 113's.

 

yes...dont discount the importance of good heads...the 180's will still give you an additional ~25 or more hp over the ported 113's - however the 113's will do the job and you have the proof...do whatever fits your budget at the time...

 

it will stay N/A so i will probally knock it up to 11:1, i also want to keep it FI so that it atomizes better in hard turns without starving the engine. i couldnt find a 383 kit at summit... anyone have a link to a good one? how much do you think this engine will run me cost wise?

 

dont want to get off subject but the prominator sight doesnt let you go to a page to order it. Wonderring if oyu knew anywhere we could get one.

 

found this in a quick search:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

as far as the PROMinator order page...i couldnt get there either, but i did locate Bill's email address: bill@misterbill.*REMOVE*homeip.net

 

that kit look like its only the bottom end... how much more would it be for cam, head's, rocker's, etc?

and thatnk you for all of your help, im new to engines...

 

that kit is just the bottom end.

figure about ~1500 for the AFR heads - ~200 for the cam and ~200 for the rockers. you'll want new pushrods to match, plus a full set of gaskets and seals...

OH...before i forget..GO GET THIS MONTH'S SUPER CHEVY MAGAZINE

Stealth Mode TPI
Building a 458-hp L98 street sleeper.

they did a "stealth" 383 L98 that tossed out GOBS of power...like over 500ft/lbs and 458hp using ported/extrude honed vette aluminum heads (got 260cfm out of them!), extrude honed TPI base and plenum with TPiS Big Tube Runners and a 58?mm TB - all the details and even part numbers are in there...

 

thanks.

 

I have the Holley SysteMax system and mine came with:

Heads
Camshaft
Lifters
Intake manifold

I don't remember the exact specs. on the cam that came with this kit but I DO REMEMBER it was way, way, way too much for a TPI engine.
The heads are descent with 2.02 intake valve and the quality of them looks pretty good. IIRC, the intakes were around 175-180.
That's plenty big enough for the CrossFire system.
They would be fine for a slightly modified CrossFire intake whereas the AFR 195's are too much, IMHO.
So, about the only thing I would consider using out of this complete kit is the heads.

 

Hey guys, sorry for the site not being available...I was doing some server upgrades. All should be back in order now.

BTW...the "misterbill.homeip.net" address is no longer valid, replace that with speedtronics.net.

Bill

 

BILL IS ALIVE!!!!!!