LT4 ED timing gear problems
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,267
Likes: 6
From: Cumming Ga
LT4 ED timing gear problems
Last year I put an extreme duty timing kit in my lt1 motor I use on my track car. After about 2k miles I had problems, low power on track. Just recently tore the motor down, all kinds of metal in the motor, and two spun main bearings.
Just received a new 383 short block, and was getting ready to put on my ed timing set and noticed a lot of wear on the cam gear that drives the water pump. I am very surprised at the amount of wear with this amount of use. Searching around I see I am not alone.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1163505&page=3
What are the options? I would like to go with an electric water pump, but am not sure it would keep up with track duty. Any ideas (needs to run up 7k rpm)
I bought this kit from jegs. Has anyone had any luck getting a replacement set? It looks like to me, the cam gear is simply too soft.
Gear comparison. Installed LT4 ed, stock LT1
Wear
Just received a new 383 short block, and was getting ready to put on my ed timing set and noticed a lot of wear on the cam gear that drives the water pump. I am very surprised at the amount of wear with this amount of use. Searching around I see I am not alone.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1163505&page=3
What are the options? I would like to go with an electric water pump, but am not sure it would keep up with track duty. Any ideas (needs to run up 7k rpm)
I bought this kit from jegs. Has anyone had any luck getting a replacement set? It looks like to me, the cam gear is simply too soft.
Gear comparison. Installed LT4 ed, stock LT1
Wear
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Chicago Illinois
Last year when I needed to upgrade after h/c swap I needed to upgrade to the hd chain and after some research I learned some people had problems with it , supposedly do to soft metal. Weather theres any truth to it I just decided to go with a LT4 chain set. So far so good. Do your research!
Large Impressive Member
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From: Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
I understand your concern re/ an EWP as I've read of others who said it could be marginal in such situations. Are you using a factory or aftermarket radiator? I assume you're making rather substantial power if you're twisting it to 7K. I still have to think that with adequate cooling mods for both coolant and oil, attention to evactuating underhood heat, etc. that there must be a suitable EWP out there somewhere that could do the job. Obviously I don't have your experience in using a Corvette for this purpose. But my gut tells me that there's got to be a way.
Le Mans Master
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From: DrunkDefender
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St. Jude Donor '07-'10
I see no reason a EWP wouldnt work. Just do a quick comparison on the GPM ratings. I think mezeire has a high capacity one for the LT1.
FWIW, I twist my LT4 to 6700(current rev limiter) on a regular basis with the stock gears/chain. I swapped in the hotcam a couple years ago. No problems so far. Mines more pleasure/autox/occasional track day than a dedicated track car.
FWIW, I twist my LT4 to 6700(current rev limiter) on a regular basis with the stock gears/chain. I swapped in the hotcam a couple years ago. No problems so far. Mines more pleasure/autox/occasional track day than a dedicated track car.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,267
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From: Cumming Ga
Just the buzz I have heard from the track guys, ewp is good for drag racing, not so good for road course...I just do de's not real racing, but figure about 20 minutes full bore on average..
This car was a stock lt1 with lloyd elliot heads and cam...400 rwhp. That engine went south. (Now i am thinking metal from the timing gears didn't help too much)
I just got a new 383 from golen, nice piece, maxed out, splayed billet mains etc. I want the capability to run this motor at 7k all day. Not just for max power, but shifting to 5th on a straight will kill your lap times..
Spent too much money on this short block to take any chances.
Tim
This car was a stock lt1 with lloyd elliot heads and cam...400 rwhp. That engine went south. (Now i am thinking metal from the timing gears didn't help too much)
I just got a new 383 from golen, nice piece, maxed out, splayed billet mains etc. I want the capability to run this motor at 7k all day. Not just for max power, but shifting to 5th on a straight will kill your lap times..
Spent too much money on this short block to take any chances.
Tim
Race Director
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From: O'Fallon Missouri
Burning Brakes
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From: Fort Worth Texas
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: WilkesBarre PA
I didn't have time to send the computer out and have the crank sensor tunned out. So I just removed the wp drive. There was nothing else wrong with the timing set to not reuse it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Fort Worth Texas
2019 Z06 2LZ A8 Coupe
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From: Atlanta GA
Comp Cams 3207 Timing Set?
As I am collecting the parts to do a head and cam swap on my 96 LT1 this is very troubling. It appears that the only alternative LT1-type timing set that hasn't been tested for the proper hardness / heat treatment is the Comp Cams 3207.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: O'Fallon Missouri
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Maryland
You are right to be troubled--best thing is to return the parts & don't mod the LT1!!! I guess that's not true if you are a drag racer or it's a street only car and you keep it cool. But if you live in Florida and you get the motor hot, you can't use the ED set--one of the guys on here had it fail in that circumstance. Road racing is a killer--high oil temps.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030
Likes: 6
From: Maryland
As for truth--if you want I can send you my ED cam gear with no teeth and you can have a look for yourself.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030
Likes: 6
From: Maryland
Just the buzz I have heard from the track guys, ewp is good for drag racing, not so good for road course...I just do de's not real racing, but figure about 20 minutes full bore on average..
This car was a stock lt1 with lloyd elliot heads and cam...400 rwhp. That engine went south. (Now i am thinking metal from the timing gears didn't help too much)
I just got a new 383 from golen, nice piece, maxed out, splayed billet mains etc. I want the capability to run this motor at 7k all day. Not just for max power, but shifting to 5th on a straight will kill your lap times..
Spent too much money on this short block to take any chances.
Tim
This car was a stock lt1 with lloyd elliot heads and cam...400 rwhp. That engine went south. (Now i am thinking metal from the timing gears didn't help too much)
I just got a new 383 from golen, nice piece, maxed out, splayed billet mains etc. I want the capability to run this motor at 7k all day. Not just for max power, but shifting to 5th on a straight will kill your lap times..
Spent too much money on this short block to take any chances.
Tim
I sent you a PM also.
If I was you, I would get some insurance from LaurelDE and continue to track your Z06.
As mentioned here, Jim Mason is the expert, and the only one I know of anywhere that has experience tracking the LT1/4 with an electric water pump. He as extensive coolers on his car to help. It can be done, and he is a great guy, he will help with info. But it is a lot of extra work--not sure if you want to do that to the Camaro or what your mechanical skill level is.
If you must track your Camaro, the reliable timing set choices that I know of are : 1) electric pump + whatever roller you want 2) Stock LT1
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Maryland
In the end, I didn't purse this option because it is likely to be very expensive and why should I fix Cloyes' gear for them? If the quench is not done right, and if you just heat treat the whole gear through (instead of flame hardening) you could end up warping the part.
It's $300 a pop if you get the process wrong, how much do you want to try it?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: South Carolina
St. Jude Donor '03 & '05
Absolutely, yes, Steve. And I strongly considered trying it. You have to know what you are doing though, and have a heat treat place do it. Usually, these things are flame-hardened locally in the teeth, and that is a very specialized process and I wouldn't know where to go for that.
In the end, I didn't purse this option because it is likely to be very expensive and why should I fix Cloyes' gear for them? If the quench is not done right, and if you just heat treat the whole gear through (instead of flame hardening) you could end up warping the part.
It's $300 a pop if you get the process wrong, how much do you want to try it?
In the end, I didn't purse this option because it is likely to be very expensive and why should I fix Cloyes' gear for them? If the quench is not done right, and if you just heat treat the whole gear through (instead of flame hardening) you could end up warping the part.
It's $300 a pop if you get the process wrong, how much do you want to try it?
But being it is I am street driver and an occasional auto crosser, I dont think I have to worry to much about my ED timing chain.
But, I will be taking th emotor out soon, and putting a EWP in, new chain and different rings (regular tension isntead of low tension oil cunsumption ring). It will be interesting to see the chains gears.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,030
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From: Maryland
I know where I can get it done if necessary.
But being it is I am street driver and an occasional auto crosser, I dont think I have to worry to much about my ED timing chain.
But, I will be taking th emotor out soon, and putting a EWP in, new chain and different rings (regular tension isntead of low tension oil cunsumption ring). It will be interesting to see the chains gears.
But being it is I am street driver and an occasional auto crosser, I dont think I have to worry to much about my ED timing chain.
But, I will be taking th emotor out soon, and putting a EWP in, new chain and different rings (regular tension isntead of low tension oil cunsumption ring). It will be interesting to see the chains gears.
You don't road race but you do live in Hawaii--I bet it gets kinda hot out there--the useful life of the ED will depend on how often you get your motor really hot in traffic jams, and if you auto-x it on hot days.
If you keep your oil temp lower than say <210 F>, I bet the ED will last you a long time for your usage, and I wouldn't worry about heat treating it. My LT1 was really cool with a 160 stat, new GM radiator, and fans on early by programming the chip. It shouldn't be too hard for you to keep well below 210 all the time.