Has anyone used this product as as a direct replacement and retrofit refrigerant option for replacing R134a and R12 refrigerants? It has been recommended for my 85 which is, of course, set up for R12.

 

No experience with that product, but here's what I did
I have an 86, and when the air compressor seals went, so did the R12. I had the seals replaced, and the counter guy pushed 4 cans of 134 freon over with the compressor, and sold them to me for $4 a can. I didn't say anything, duh, I thought they put in 134 seals. I have a friend that works at u-haul fixing air conditioning in the trucks, and he said I could use that if I changed the dryer, and used pac-oil.
So I got some pac oil, put in about an ounce and a half in the dryer, put it all back together, got a 134 switchover kit, and filled it with 2 and a quarter cans of 134, and it works like it used to.
I was told by my friend that the 2 freons expand at different rates, and if I wanted even better cooling, I would need to change the orifice in a tube to make the expansion rate orifice compatible with the freon. I didn't do it, and it works like it used to so no problems so far.
The guy at the rebuild shop said usually the only place these newer systems leak is at the compressor seals. so that's why I did that. It doesn't leak any more either.
I would guess that's what you should do if you want the A/C back. It's cheaper, and you get about the same cooling.

 

Coupeguy - Thanks for the sharing your experience with switching to r134. If I understood you correctly, you replaced your compressor? I was told that a proper conversion here would run me about $400 including labour, purging the system, parts. Figured I'd bump this thread to see if anyone has found the Red Tek idea to be a successful alternative?

 

I just buy the good ol R12 from Mexico or Craigslist. Goes for about $20-25 per can on craigslist.

 

I would stay away from any blends. You may make enemies at an A/C shop if you ever bring it in for service and the blends rarely work as well as sticking with R12 or R134a straight up.

Staying with R12 is the considered to be the easiest. However, to do the job correctly requires the same amount of work - just a different choice of materials. Either way, you still should find/repair the leak, replace the accumulator, o-rings, and do a flush to clean out any debris (mainly old oil and wear particles from the compressor). After that, it's just a choice of materials when you put it back together.

There is no magic to converting to 134a and, after all is said and done, it should be about the same price to do either correctly.

 

I had an air conditioning specialist convert my unit. He put in a new compresser and rebuilt the hoses. Out the door was about $700.00. The old unit leaked freon and would not cool. Now when it's 110 degrees I keep it at 70 degrees inside. Nice!

 

I have Red Tek in an E34 5-Series BMW.

An independent shop recommended it and I agreed without any
research. Later I learned a little about the composition and the
question about possible flammability in an accident.

Here is a post of mine from five years ago which drew no responses

 

Technically, it's illegal to dump in any HC based refrigerant in the US and possession is specifically outlawed in 20 or so States. Far more popular in Canada and Europe. Check flashpoint before using; don't assend anybody.

 

Nobody ever complained about driving around with 20 gallons of highly flammable gasoline pumping through their car.

I thought all those older refrigerants were flammable.

 

Well, almost no one.



'The Historical Case Against the Placement of Gas Tanks Outside the
Frame Rails on the 1973-87 General Motors C & K Model Pickup Trucks'



.

 

Just use 134a. Sure.....it doesn't work as well as R12. This doesn't mean your air won't blow cold. "Work as well" is a component of time. 134a will cool off and blow cold just not as quick as R12 hence the "Bad performance" reputation it has, However, in our cabin Mine blows a frigid 42° F I usually have to turn it down, even on a hot day. I'll post a pic later.

On My RX-7 it Blew 30°. On a 100°F Summer day I could get Chills inside a convertible with a Black top.


On My Celica, it would Blow Ice Crystals out the Center Vents.

Here is where the Disconnect is concerned.......Free Fluorine Molecules in the system. Fluorine in a confined system is not corrosive however if it is in free form or mixed with other gasses it can become highly corrosive. Once you introduce R134a into an R12 system you now have free fluorine molecules that will eat condensers, Evaporators and o-rings. Adding this gas to a already 20 year old system is just asking for trouble. Not to mention, why are people adding this cheap gas to their system in the first place? Could it be there is already a leak? I think so, that is why it stopped working in the first place.

Answer? Purge.

You can purge the system by vacuum or in the case of an old 20 year old leaky system....."perma-purge".... is what I call it. You fill the system and it purges itself over time through the existing leak...then you refill it. Most likely most of the fluorine will go out with the R134a and run directly to the Ozone layer.......that is another thread.

Understand the Oil in the system is completely contaminated with the R12 molecules and it may never be able to be removed via purge. So when you hear an Expert say that you need to replace numerous components He is correct.

Correct in the sense of how to repair the system to last another 20 years with out so much as a recharge.

Here is the difference. The OP is a person that owns one maybe two wrenches. He can refill the system in the amount of time it takes to Check the oil and add a quart. So if you don't mind just putting in a Can of $5 R134a now and again, just use said R134a and prepare to buy a new can every 6 months and along with your nifty little blue hose you can recharge the system in the parking lot of Kragen while you Show off your Ceramic coated Headers.

 

No flammability issues with R12 or R134.

Gasoline doesn't have a direct path to the passenger compartment like a leaking Evaporator, nor is it flowing at 200 psi just behind the front bumper. Current fuel designs - well anything after the Pinto - centers the gas tank closer to the middle or creates some sort of buffer to protect the tank. Though you might get less of a show with an evaporator leak at 25 to 28 psi - as opposed to a holed Condensor at 200 psi - lighting up might not be a good idea with HC HVAC.

Supposedly, Domestic OEM's have experimented with the HC's but given up essentially admitting they couldn't make a leak proof system.
Europeans continue to tinker with it. Considering the source, doubt HC's will ever be an economical alternative.

 

The OP is a person that owns one maybe two wrenches. -- hmmm...I'm not sure when jhammons01 was in my garage but but I've spun a wrench or two in my day - A/C just isn't my specialty.

I do appreciate the varied opinions/experiences - thanks for the responses.

 

Hell, looks exactly like the C4 layout. (The Pinto liability case was a complete farce btw.)

 

That is exactly what I meant. A person without a wrench would have no interest in what kind of gas is in an A/C system.

My sentence meaning that I was SURE you had more than a wrench or two and more likely a Box full. I was being totally supportive but I guess I sounded a bit pompous. Sorry

 

Thanks, CC. It has been a long time since I laughed
so unexpectedly and hard.

.

 

I'm not following you. The Pinto fiasco was a Public Relations nightmare / media scare bandwagon to the Nth degree. Of ~2 million produced, 27 people died in fires. And not necessarily all of those were rear end collisions.

That's a mortality rate of one thousandth of a percent, (aka 0.00001)

It's safety record was on par with other subcompacts of the era, better than some, worse than some. But I guess I had the luxury of looking at the whole thing in hindsight without biased influence.

 

It was the remark about looking exactly like a C4 that caught me
unexpectedly. It's the first time I've come across a suggestion
that these two cars are siblings, separated at birth.

I certainly wasn't laughing about the people who were injured or
who perished as a result of accidents (and I do not feel you
implied that I was.)

For whatever reason, one sub-compact in particular was targeted
as being unnecessarily prone to catching fire and trapping occupants
during that era.

.

 

jhammons01 - hey, thanks for clarifying. Much appreciated. All is good.

 

No worries here

The A/C subject gets under my skin. You know there is every home improvement item known to man at Lowe's and Home Depot.........'cept for your a/c. A/C is black magic for DIY. You can't even find the fuses for the exterior box without first flashing your I.D.....well maybe that is a stretch but you get the picture.......We are forced to call a technician and pay somebody to do a job We all could easily do.

This is anger from Living in East Texas were it was really hot and before I learned about cryogenics.

Did you know that a regular a/c compressor with beefed up o-rings and charged with pure Helium is capable of temperatures as low as 20° Kelvin? In a matter of moments we could create a block of ice from just the moisture in the air. Pure helium is way more reactive than what we use today in....everything. Helium heats up more when compressed and cools off way more when it is allowed to expand. blah blah rant rant

Anyway, once everybody understands that we are just compressing a gas and releasing it in an enclosed system, the black magic goes away.

*This just in, jhammons01 banned for ranting, News at 11:00*