Front-End Suspension Questions
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 178
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From: Thornton CO
Front-End Suspension Questions
I already know Moog is the shiznat for ball joints.
1) How comparable is Spicer to Moog?
2) Any other brands worth looking at...buying...using?
3) Is there any placer cheaper than RockAuto for Moogs or Spicer?
3a) If not, anyone got the latest RockAuto discount code?
4) Out of the 4 front joints, please rate their importance. Ex: Lower (1), Outter (2), Upper (3), Inner (4)??
4a) Is it best to replace all 4 when doing this type of job?
5) Can you mix-and-match different brand for inner and outter without worry?
I might have more questions later.
1) How comparable is Spicer to Moog?
2) Any other brands worth looking at...buying...using?
3) Is there any placer cheaper than RockAuto for Moogs or Spicer?
3a) If not, anyone got the latest RockAuto discount code?
4) Out of the 4 front joints, please rate their importance. Ex: Lower (1), Outter (2), Upper (3), Inner (4)??
4a) Is it best to replace all 4 when doing this type of job?
5) Can you mix-and-match different brand for inner and outter without worry?
I might have more questions later.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,179
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From: Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
St. Jude '03 thru '24
Uppers are usually good for 150K+
Lowers are first wear out. Inners and outers should be considered a set if one starts to get sloppy.
RockAuto
Lowers are first wear out. Inners and outers should be considered a set if one starts to get sloppy.
RockAuto
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 59,243
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From: Driving a hybrid in Hipsterville
My upper ball joint wasn't too bad, but the lower was thrashed. My guess is when you start tearing into it you're going to want to replace everything. I was just going to tear mine down and find the problem and ended up replacing the steering rack, tie rod ends, ball joins, wheel bearings and suspension bushings. It went from a weekend project to never ending and my suspension is still sitting on my work bench.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,179
Likes: 673
From: Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
St. Jude '03 thru '24
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 83
Likes: 1
From: Charleston SC
Ball Joints
I'm missing something here - we are talking about the ball joints right? What are you guys referring to when you talk about 'inners' and 'outers'? There are only 2 per side - upper and lower. I'm confused - please explain.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,348
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From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
I think someone is just using the wrong terminology.
Front ball joints: upper, lower, left, right....four in total.
Larry
code5coupe
Team Owner
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Posts: 59,243
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From: Driving a hybrid in Hipsterville
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Spicers were hard to find, and I didn't hear anyone on here using them. Napa quit carrying them. Spicer probably made the original ones on the Vette. They made the original U-joints anyways.
As of November, Rockauto.com now sells Spicer balljoints. You will not beat their price. They're less than the Moogs too. Someone around here probably has a 5% discount code for them.
As of November, Rockauto.com now sells Spicer balljoints. You will not beat their price. They're less than the Moogs too.
Someone around here probably has a 5% discount code for them.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: Thornton CO
Yes, Tie-Rod Ends...(inners and outters). 4 total "joints" on each side...8 total for the front.
The biggest thing I'm looking at is the amount of money it's going to cost.
If I purchase from RockAuto:
SPICER Part # 4011627 (Tie Rod End - Outer) $35.99 (2 for $71.98)
SPICER Part # 4011547 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $23.79 (2 for $47.58)
SPICER Part # 5001069 (Ball Joint - Upper) $70.79 (2 for $141.58)
SPICER Part # 5051153 (Ball Joint - Lower) $63.99 (2 for $127.98)
Total for Spicers(with shipping) = $398.65
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $380)
MOOG Part # ES2908RL (Tie Rod End - Outer) $52.79 (2 for $105.58)
MOOG Part # EV200 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $22.79 (2 for $45.58)
MOOG Part # K6346 (Ball Joint - Upper) $72.79 (2 for $145.58)
MOOG Part # K6345 (Ball Joint - Lower) $68.79 (2 for $137.58)
Total for Moogs(with shipping) = $475.12
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $457)
Huge difference in price. Even larger if I go with one of those "kit" packages. EX: Mid-American - all 4 + bushings for $249.99; or Ekler's - 3 (no inner tie-rods) and bushings for $219.99. (Not including shipping for either though)
Are Moogs really worth the nearly $80 over Spicers? or the near $220-$260 over these "kits"?
Are there any other brands out there worth naming?
The biggest thing I'm looking at is the amount of money it's going to cost.
If I purchase from RockAuto:
SPICER Part # 4011627 (Tie Rod End - Outer) $35.99 (2 for $71.98)
SPICER Part # 4011547 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $23.79 (2 for $47.58)
SPICER Part # 5001069 (Ball Joint - Upper) $70.79 (2 for $141.58)
SPICER Part # 5051153 (Ball Joint - Lower) $63.99 (2 for $127.98)
Total for Spicers(with shipping) = $398.65
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $380)
MOOG Part # ES2908RL (Tie Rod End - Outer) $52.79 (2 for $105.58)
MOOG Part # EV200 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $22.79 (2 for $45.58)
MOOG Part # K6346 (Ball Joint - Upper) $72.79 (2 for $145.58)
MOOG Part # K6345 (Ball Joint - Lower) $68.79 (2 for $137.58)
Total for Moogs(with shipping) = $475.12
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $457)
Huge difference in price. Even larger if I go with one of those "kit" packages. EX: Mid-American - all 4 + bushings for $249.99; or Ekler's - 3 (no inner tie-rods) and bushings for $219.99. (Not including shipping for either though)
Are Moogs really worth the nearly $80 over Spicers? or the near $220-$260 over these "kits"?
Are there any other brands out there worth naming?
Last edited by stearnman; Mar 15, 2007 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Correcting part numbers & prices.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: Thornton CO
Since smearig brought up part on bushing as well...yes, I am going to do bushings too...front and rear...sway bars too, I think.
What's the best deals out there for the package/kit of poly-type bushings? Energy Suspension? Other brands that are good?
I saw that Moog has 2 types of bushings. "Federal-Mogul offers two types of bushings under the Moog brand. One uses conventional rubber, and the second uses a problem-solving thermoplastic design that combines the memory of rubber and strength of plastic"
Has anyone tried these Moog thermalplastic types?
What's the best deals out there for the package/kit of poly-type bushings? Energy Suspension? Other brands that are good?
I saw that Moog has 2 types of bushings. "Federal-Mogul offers two types of bushings under the Moog brand. One uses conventional rubber, and the second uses a problem-solving thermoplastic design that combines the memory of rubber and strength of plastic"
Has anyone tried these Moog thermalplastic types?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Riverside California
Yes, Tie-Rod Ends...(inners and outters). 4 total "joints" on each side...8 total for the front.
The biggest thing I'm looking at is the amount of money it's going to cost.
If I purchase from RockAuto:
SPICER Part # 4011627 (Tie Rod End - Outer) $35.99 (2 for $71.98)
SPICER Part # 4011547 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $23.79 (2 for $47.58)
SPICER Part # 5001069 (Ball Joint - Upper) $70.79 (2 for $141.58)
SPICER Part # 5051153 (Ball Joint - Lower) $63.99 (2 for $127.98)
Total for Spicers(with shipping) = $398.65
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $380)
MOOG Part # 4011627 (Tie Rod End - Outer) $35.99 (2 for $71.98)
MOOG Part # 4011547 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $23.79 (2 for $47.58)
MOOG Part # 5001069 (Ball Joint - Upper) $70.79 (2 for $141.58)
MOOG Part # 5051153 (Ball Joint - Lower) $63.99 (2 for $127.98)
Total for Moogs(with shipping) = $475.12
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $457)
Huge difference in price. Even larger if I go with one of those "kit" packages. EX: Mid-American - all 4 + bushings for $249.99; or Ekler's - 3 (no inner tie-rods) and bushings for $219.99. (Not including shipping for either though)
Are Moogs really worth the nearly $80 over Spicers? or the near $220-$260 over these "kits"?
Are there any other brands out there worth naming?
The biggest thing I'm looking at is the amount of money it's going to cost.
If I purchase from RockAuto:
SPICER Part # 4011627 (Tie Rod End - Outer) $35.99 (2 for $71.98)
SPICER Part # 4011547 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $23.79 (2 for $47.58)
SPICER Part # 5001069 (Ball Joint - Upper) $70.79 (2 for $141.58)
SPICER Part # 5051153 (Ball Joint - Lower) $63.99 (2 for $127.98)
Total for Spicers(with shipping) = $398.65
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $380)
MOOG Part # 4011627 (Tie Rod End - Outer) $35.99 (2 for $71.98)
MOOG Part # 4011547 (Tie Rod End - Inner) $23.79 (2 for $47.58)
MOOG Part # 5001069 (Ball Joint - Upper) $70.79 (2 for $141.58)
MOOG Part # 5051153 (Ball Joint - Lower) $63.99 (2 for $127.98)
Total for Moogs(with shipping) = $475.12
(If I find the 5% discount code, then it's ~ $457)
Huge difference in price. Even larger if I go with one of those "kit" packages. EX: Mid-American - all 4 + bushings for $249.99; or Ekler's - 3 (no inner tie-rods) and bushings for $219.99. (Not including shipping for either though)
Are Moogs really worth the nearly $80 over Spicers? or the near $220-$260 over these "kits"?
Are there any other brands out there worth naming?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Or maybe MOOG/Spicer are all owned by some huge conglomorate like Federal Mogul and just the boxes are different. The MOOG are clearly marked.
Based on reputation, I wouldn't hesitate to use either. Anything else is a gamble and may not even fit.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: Thornton CO
MOOG # K6345 (lower), # K6346 (upper), # EV200 (inner), & # ES2908RL (outer)
Oh boy...I didn't put the idividual MOOG prices down correctly either. Everything is now corrected in red above.
Last edited by stearnman; Mar 15, 2007 at 11:34 PM.
