Synthetic Fluid
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
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Synthetic Fluid
I usually stay away from the synthetic vs dino oil debates. I am not authority on the subject.
I have commented that over the years I have seen some strange failures over the years, when it was used in a gearbox(auto or stick) and rear ends.
Today was no exception.
Against my will, my buddy persuaded me to do an overhaul on his 78 trans am. The trans was a super t-10. It was rebuilt about 3k miles ago by a local hot shot with a good reputation.
Trans was full of super fine metal. Fluid was like mud because the metal content was so high. Although the trans was not run dry or low, it was in rough shape. Every bushing, thrust washer and bearing were shot. 200,000 mile shot. After scratching my head for a while, I could not understand why it failed. It was run with a high dollar synthetic.
I have commented that over the years I have seen some strange failures over the years, when it was used in a gearbox(auto or stick) and rear ends.
Today was no exception.
Against my will, my buddy persuaded me to do an overhaul on his 78 trans am. The trans was a super t-10. It was rebuilt about 3k miles ago by a local hot shot with a good reputation.
Trans was full of super fine metal. Fluid was like mud because the metal content was so high. Although the trans was not run dry or low, it was in rough shape. Every bushing, thrust washer and bearing were shot. 200,000 mile shot. After scratching my head for a while, I could not understand why it failed. It was run with a high dollar synthetic.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,189
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From: Houston PA
My guess without tearing it down myself would be something was put together wrong, or a part failure. I would not think fluid would be the cause, unless the wrong fluid was put in.
By the way, the 'local hot shot' did not offer a warranty?
By the way, the 'local hot shot' did not offer a warranty?
Last edited by vetteblack; Mar 18, 2007 at 06:30 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 163
From: Davis CA
Pete,
Is it the case that the people doing upgrades and running their drivelines harder also use synthetic lube or do you see the strange failures on daily drivers using synthetic fluid? It could be the case that the hard users/abusers almost exclusively use synthetics so that failed components are most likely to be synthetic users.
Steve
Is it the case that the people doing upgrades and running their drivelines harder also use synthetic lube or do you see the strange failures on daily drivers using synthetic fluid? It could be the case that the hard users/abusers almost exclusively use synthetics so that failed components are most likely to be synthetic users.
Steve
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
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Pete,
Is it the case that the people doing upgrades and running their drivelines harder also use synthetic lube or do you see the strange failures on daily drivers using synthetic fluid? It could be the case that the hard users/abusers almost exclusively use synthetics so that failed components are most likely to be synthetic users.
Steve
Is it the case that the people doing upgrades and running their drivelines harder also use synthetic lube or do you see the strange failures on daily drivers using synthetic fluid? It could be the case that the hard users/abusers almost exclusively use synthetics so that failed components are most likely to be synthetic users.
Steve
Seems to be a 50/50 split. This super t-10 is in a car that does the friday night car/show and cruise in's. No abuse at all.
The last couple of auto boxes were also in daily driver type stuff.
Some were in stuff that was pounded hard. The strange part is I almost never see these units with broken parts, just worn out badly. Thrust washers, bearings are all worn almost razor sharp. Odd.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,566
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From: Mt Laurel NJ
St. Jude Donor '06-'07
Pete,
I have always heard that you should not use syntheic oil in a rebuilt engine untill it is "broken in". Could it be that the same is true of transmissons and rears?
I have always heard that you should not use syntheic oil in a rebuilt engine untill it is "broken in". Could it be that the same is true of transmissons and rears?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
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The only common denominator I see is the fluid.
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Instructor
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Bordentown NJ
I have a 93 Dakota 4x4 with a plow that I bought new and used as a work truck for over twelve years. I put synthetics in the engine, trans, and rears right after break in. Truck has over 150k on it and countless hours of plowing snow, and it only has a v6. Still runs like new. Just my 2c.
Thread Starter
Race Director
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By the way, the 'local hot shot' did not offer a warranty?[/QUOTE]
Warrantee was never questioned. The trans was lo-mile, but it was done 3-4 years ago. Because the shop has a 3 month wait, my buddy asked me to do it. I do not like to do stick shift boxes, normally auto transmissions are my thing.
Warrantee was never questioned. The trans was lo-mile, but it was done 3-4 years ago. Because the shop has a 3 month wait, my buddy asked me to do it. I do not like to do stick shift boxes, normally auto transmissions are my thing.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 59,243
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From: Driving a hybrid in Hipsterville
Interesting. What's your favorite fluid for a 700r4 Pete? Also, I was wondering where you stand on the issue of not changing transmission fluid on an older tranny if it hasn't been changed regularly up to that point. I hear a lot of nonsense about that and I just have a hard time believing that fresh fluid could be bad.
Last edited by smearig; Mar 19, 2007 at 09:59 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 210
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From: Lakewood CO
This is very interesting. I switched to Redline D4 ATF in my '93 Yukon's 4L60E about 5 years and 50k miles ago. I have changed the fluid twice since then and never noticed much grit or metal in the bottom of the pan. The truck has 162k on it now and it going strong. I wonder if there is a specific brand that is causing this.
Dave
Dave
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Race Director
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Interesting. What's your favorite fluid for a 700r4 Pete? Also, I was wondering where you stand on the issue of not changing transmission fluid on an older tranny if it hasn't been changed regularly up to that point. I hear a lot of nonsense about that and I just have a hard time believing that fresh fluid could be bad.
I would avoid the machine flushing, but would not be afraid to drop the pan and change the filter.
As far as fluid, I do not have a favorite. Any name brand dexron 3 works well. I never see anything unexplainable when tearing down a trans with typical fluid.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 908
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From: Colorado Springs Colorado
Pete - I know nothing about the subject besides what my local guy told me when he built my 700r4, but FWIW, he only uses AMSOIL syn in every transmission he builds. I've seen the palates with the 55 gallon drums outside his shop, I think he said he was the largest customer they had in the state. He's a local favorite with the racing crowd, and his shop has been open for quite a few years.
Anyway, I took his advice (since he wouldn't put anything else in my transmission anyway). Heeding your past warnings on the subject somewhat, I have had Blackstone analyze the fluid after the first 6k or so. They gave it glowing marks, but I will keep getting the analysis done every year and keep an eye on it.
If I get a lab report back one day that looks fishy I will change shops and fluids, but so far so good.
Anyway, I took his advice (since he wouldn't put anything else in my transmission anyway). Heeding your past warnings on the subject somewhat, I have had Blackstone analyze the fluid after the first 6k or so. They gave it glowing marks, but I will keep getting the analysis done every year and keep an eye on it.
If I get a lab report back one day that looks fishy I will change shops and fluids, but so far so good.
