4+3 trans swaps
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
Thanks Joe. I will be looking for a T-5. I would like to keep the cost down. I am going to keep the stock engine, so horse power is not an issue.
Do you have to do any changes for the speedometer?
About how many hours does it take to take out the Doug Nash 4+3 and replace with T-5?
Thank you very much for your help,
Do you have to do any changes for the speedometer?
About how many hours does it take to take out the Doug Nash 4+3 and replace with T-5?
Thank you very much for your help,
As far as 'hours'. Not sure. I have a lift, tranny jack, stands, etc. You need to:
Disconnect battery
Remove the distributor
Lift vehicle
Put a stand under the oil pan to keep the engine from diving
Unbolt the driveshaft
Drain transmission/od fluids
Unbolt exhaust
Disconnect any wires, cables, linkage
Unbolt the cbeam
Unbolt the transmission
Probably about 3 hours with a lift + air tools. I had an automatic,
which came out in about 2 1/2 hours. But I'm doing cam too, so I also yanked the motor.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Looking for a T-5
Joe, I must say you have been a great help.
I am in the process of looking for a T-5.
Which transmission years should I be looking at?
'83-'92 V-8-powered Camaro and Firebird
1982-1992 Chevrolet Camaro (World-Class T-5 with RPO code MK6)
1993-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (V6 models) ?? Torque ratings lighter?
Rick
I am in the process of looking for a T-5.
Which transmission years should I be looking at?
'83-'92 V-8-powered Camaro and Firebird
1982-1992 Chevrolet Camaro (World-Class T-5 with RPO code MK6)
1993-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (V6 models) ?? Torque ratings lighter?
Rick
Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Part Number Chart - 1984 to 1995 Corvette
Joe,
Is this information you wanted? Clutch / flywheel and more.
http://home.san.rr.com/khastings/ima...hpartslist.gif
Rick
Is this information you wanted? Clutch / flywheel and more.
http://home.san.rr.com/khastings/ima...hpartslist.gif
Rick
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 3
From: MD
Man, I really wanna do this swap now too. I've got a 4+3 and it's only a matter of time till it's done now that the 383 is up and runnin'. Since I've already got a 4+3, I can leave my bellhousing and clutch on the car and the trans will bolt right in, right? If I can weld the shifter properly it will come out in the stock location? And with the C_beam adapter from ProStreet Customs it will fit the C_beam with a few modifications. Does the driveshaft need to be shortened? This might finally be an economical alternative to the 4+3...
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
Joe, I must say you have been a great help.
I am in the process of looking for a T-5.
Which transmission years should I be looking at?
'83-'92 V-8-powered Camaro and Firebird
1982-1992 Chevrolet Camaro (World-Class T-5 with RPO code MK6)
1993-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (V6 models) ?? Torque ratings lighter?
Rick
I am in the process of looking for a T-5.
Which transmission years should I be looking at?
'83-'92 V-8-powered Camaro and Firebird
1982-1992 Chevrolet Camaro (World-Class T-5 with RPO code MK6)
1993-2002 Chevrolet Camaro (V6 models) ?? Torque ratings lighter?
Rick
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
I'm just waiting on the prototype cbeam adapter. Assuming I get it this week, i'll bolt it up and let pro street know if any changes need to be made. If not, I imagine they will be available almost immediately.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
Man, I really wanna do this swap now too. I've got a 4+3 and it's only a matter of time till it's done now that the 383 is up and runnin'. Since I've already got a 4+3, I can leave my bellhousing and clutch on the car and the trans will bolt right in, right? If I can weld the shifter properly it will come out in the stock location? And with the C_beam adapter from ProStreet Customs it will fit the C_beam with a few modifications. Does the driveshaft need to be shortened? This might finally be an economical alternative to the 4+3...
The shifter needs to be cut and welded so it comes up in the right spot.
The drive shaft should not need to be altered. Same yoke, and same length.
I'm not 100% sure on cbeam mods yet. With the T56 swap, you need to drill two new holes because the back of the tranny is weird, but on the T5 you should be able to make the bracket work with the stock cbeam holes. But thats pro streets part.
-- Joe
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Drifting
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,638
Likes: 3
Holy smokes guys - reading all of this makes my head spin - seems like alot of work to save a few hundred bucks! In my 86, I just went with the Keisler TKO500 - made the swap in a day and a half - drives and shifts great after 2 years of abuse on road tracks - no issues to report!
Great gear ratios - of course I have it linked to a ZZ4 - so that may make some difference!
I'd much rather drive my car than work on it. For me, the extra money was worth the saved time and potential headaches! I could devote all that extra time to other projects I am working on! So instead of fooling with the Transmission in the car - I was building my Bonneville racer and going racing every couple of weeks with the 86. (the one with the TKO500)
Everyone is different - we all have different priorities, and skills I guess thats what makes it so much fun!
Carl "satisfied Tremek customer" Johansson
Carl Johansson
Great gear ratios - of course I have it linked to a ZZ4 - so that may make some difference!
I'd much rather drive my car than work on it. For me, the extra money was worth the saved time and potential headaches! I could devote all that extra time to other projects I am working on! So instead of fooling with the Transmission in the car - I was building my Bonneville racer and going racing every couple of weeks with the 86. (the one with the TKO500)
Everyone is different - we all have different priorities, and skills I guess thats what makes it so much fun!
Carl "satisfied Tremek customer" Johansson
Carl Johansson
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 3
From: MD
Carl,
I see where you're comin from, but it isn't a few hundred bucks. The cost of this T5 swap is about $3000 cheaper than the TKO kit. In a car like my 84 that's worth maybe $6-$7k, spending $3700 on a trans isn't what I want to do. $700 for a new trans is much more to my budget right now...
I see where you're comin from, but it isn't a few hundred bucks. The cost of this T5 swap is about $3000 cheaper than the TKO kit. In a car like my 84 that's worth maybe $6-$7k, spending $3700 on a trans isn't what I want to do. $700 for a new trans is much more to my budget right now...
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
The 'headaches' will be exactly the same, since it's the same thing. Same basic transmission design (externally), same type of cbeam adapter. Same tunnel mods. The only 'diy' part will probably be the shifter, and even then
maybe we can work something out with pro street to mod stock fbody shifters on a trade-in basis.?.
The TKO is a nice transmission, like the ZF, like the T56, and so on. It's a matter of what you need. Considering the values of C4's have dropped like a rock, now that you can get into a C5 for under 20k, it doesn't make much sense putting a very expensive transmission in a C4.
If and when you decide to sell or trade the car in, nobody is going to give a rats behind that you spent 3k+ on a TKO..
-- Joe
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 3
From: MD
Speedo is a very good point. You will of course need to change the plastic drive and driven speedo gears in the transmission, for a total cost of about $18.00. (you won't find an fbody with a 2.59 rear end). Depending on the year of your vette, and year of the T5 you need to make sure you get the right VSS. If yours is cable, an 82-86 firebird/camaro VSS. If its 2 wire magnetic, an 87-89 firebird VSS. If its optical, 90-92 camaro/firebird.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Electrical Connections on Doug Nash 4+3
I have a 1984 Corvette shop Manual.
I see six electrical connectors, and Throttel valve cable on the Doug Nash 4+3:
1) 1st Gear Switch connector
2) 2nd gear switch connector.
3) 4th gear switch connector
4) Overdrive Solenoid Connector
5) E.S.S connector. Electron Speed Sensor
6) Backup light switch.
How do we handle the 1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear and overdrive solenoid connectors on the T-5? Will we get an error code if they are disconnected?
E.S.S connector plugs into the overdrive unit of the Doug Nash. How do we connect this to the T-5 I do not see a speedometer cable it must be electronic.
Throtte valve cable - This cable is on the overdrive unit. This must act the same way like an automatic transmission. I do not think it is used on the T-5 because it does not have an overdrive.
Sorry for all the questions.
I see six electrical connectors, and Throttel valve cable on the Doug Nash 4+3:
1) 1st Gear Switch connector
2) 2nd gear switch connector.
3) 4th gear switch connector
4) Overdrive Solenoid Connector
5) E.S.S connector. Electron Speed Sensor
6) Backup light switch.
How do we handle the 1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear and overdrive solenoid connectors on the T-5? Will we get an error code if they are disconnected?
E.S.S connector plugs into the overdrive unit of the Doug Nash. How do we connect this to the T-5 I do not see a speedometer cable it must be electronic.
Throtte valve cable - This cable is on the overdrive unit. This must act the same way like an automatic transmission. I do not think it is used on the T-5 because it does not have an overdrive.
Sorry for all the questions.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Richmond 6-Speed Corvette Installation Overview
I found this website last week. It tells the story about replacing the Doug Nash 4+3 with the Richmond 6-speed. Very interesting.
http://www.areddy.net/vettetrans/
Rick
http://www.areddy.net/vettetrans/
Rick
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
Should be fairly easy to come by.
i'll post pix when I get a chance.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
I have a 1984 Corvette shop Manual.
I see six electrical connectors, and Throttel valve cable on the Doug Nash 4+3:
1) 1st Gear Switch connector
2) 2nd gear switch connector.
3) 4th gear switch connector
4) Overdrive Solenoid Connector
5) E.S.S connector. Electron Speed Sensor
6) Backup light switch.
How do we handle the 1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear and overdrive solenoid connectors on the T-5? Will we get an error code if they are disconnected?
E.S.S connector plugs into the overdrive unit of the Doug Nash. How do we connect this to the T-5 I do not see a speedometer cable it must be electronic.
Throtte valve cable - This cable is on the overdrive unit. This must act the same way like an automatic transmission. I do not think it is used on the T-5 because it does not have an overdrive.
Sorry for all the questions.
I see six electrical connectors, and Throttel valve cable on the Doug Nash 4+3:
1) 1st Gear Switch connector
2) 2nd gear switch connector.
3) 4th gear switch connector
4) Overdrive Solenoid Connector
5) E.S.S connector. Electron Speed Sensor
6) Backup light switch.
How do we handle the 1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear and overdrive solenoid connectors on the T-5? Will we get an error code if they are disconnected?
E.S.S connector plugs into the overdrive unit of the Doug Nash. How do we connect this to the T-5 I do not see a speedometer cable it must be electronic.
Throtte valve cable - This cable is on the overdrive unit. This must act the same way like an automatic transmission. I do not think it is used on the T-5 because it does not have an overdrive.
Sorry for all the questions.
No throttle valve cable needs connection.
As far as the solenoid connectors, you won't connect them. I'm not sure if you will get a code. I'm going to have to defer to someone whos had some experience with that end. On my '87 i'm running a computer from a '91 fbody (1227730) because I like MAP better than MAF for tuning.
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; Oct 15, 2007 at 09:15 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,202
Likes: 3
From: MD
Tach comes from the distributor
You will not get an error from leaving any of the gear switches out. My first gear switch has been bad on my 4+3 for a while and I bypassed it and it's been fine. You can probably remove all the gear switches.
O.D. Solenoid connector will be useless and can be removed.
ESS/VSS and Backup light will work fine. If they need adapting cut the plugs off the junkyard donor for the trans and solder them in.
TV cable can disappear cause it will now be useless
You will not get an error from leaving any of the gear switches out. My first gear switch has been bad on my 4+3 for a while and I bypassed it and it's been fine. You can probably remove all the gear switches.
O.D. Solenoid connector will be useless and can be removed.
ESS/VSS and Backup light will work fine. If they need adapting cut the plugs off the junkyard donor for the trans and solder them in.
TV cable can disappear cause it will now be useless
Last edited by JLeatherman; Oct 15, 2007 at 10:36 AM.