Antifreeze/Coolant Question(s)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
If the car came with glycol, stick with glycol. If it has Dexcool, stick
with Dexcool. The two coolants are incompatible, numerous expensive
issues arising from mixing them are mattes of public record and lawsuits.
You can't flush Dexcool completely from a system, even if you succeeded
there would still be residue from the coolant that had seeped into gaskets
and hoses. People have suggested changing over after a total rebuild
- what about the heater, radiator, water pump and so on?
If still unconvinced, then at least search the archives here and on
the web before proceeding
As for the 'compatible with everything' coolants: sorry, I have no
confidence that I would ever be able to collect if they turned out to
be incompatible. I couldn't be convinced to trust and try.
.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Dexcool sucks. You're not gonna get any money if/when your engine fails from that either.
So why not use the newer coolant and eventually the Dexcool will be mostly gone.
So why not use the newer coolant and eventually the Dexcool will be mostly gone.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 3
From: Citrus Heights California
Soft water = Calcium and magnesium ions are replaced with sodium ions to reduce fouling. The sodium ions will increase the water's conductivity and speed up galvanic corrosion.
Deionized water = Reverse Osmosis = Filtered to remove minerals, bacteria, etc. Used to desalinate water. Aggressive to metals.
Distilled water = Boiled to remove minerals and bacteria. Cleaner than Deionized, but more expensive. More aggressive to metals.
When deionized water or distilled water is used in a lab, the pipes are always plastic.
You can't win with water. It's a very nasty chemical, but it's damn good at cooling. (WATER IS NOT A CHEMICAL)
The antifreeze is there to do everything the water can't, in this order: Resist corrosion, lower freezing temps, and increase boiling temps.
Deionized water = Reverse Osmosis = Filtered to remove minerals, bacteria, etc. Used to desalinate water. Aggressive to metals.
Distilled water = Boiled to remove minerals and bacteria. Cleaner than Deionized, but more expensive. More aggressive to metals.
When deionized water or distilled water is used in a lab, the pipes are always plastic.
You can't win with water. It's a very nasty chemical, but it's damn good at cooling. (WATER IS NOT A CHEMICAL)
The antifreeze is there to do everything the water can't, in this order: Resist corrosion, lower freezing temps, and increase boiling temps.
From: http://www.counter-act.com/rustprocess.htm
FOR CORROSION TO OCCUR THREE REQUIREMENTS MUST BE MET:
1.The metal needs to be in contact with an electrolyte. (DEFINITION: ELECTROLYTES ARE SOLUTIONS WHICH CONDUCT ELECTRICAL CURRENT AND SUPPORT IONIZED PARTICLES.) Usually the electrolyte is water but other liquids as well as gases in some instances may serve as electrolytes as well.
2.The presence of dissolved substances in the electrolyte is necessary. These substances can be dissolved gases such as oxygen, chlorine or bromine gases or dissolved ions such as H+ (hydrogen ion) all of which serve as strong corrosive agents. Pure distilled water with no dissolved substances will not function as an electrolyte and metals subjected to it will not corrode.
3.The presence of a corrosion cell whereby two portions of the metal surfaces become electrically connected via an electrolyte, salt bridge etc. A portion of the metal surface then becomes anodic (corrodes) giving up metal ions and another portion becomes cathodic, gaining metal ions.
It appears that adding distilled water to a coolant with a rust inhibiter would be benificial to the longevity of a radiator. I would also change it every two years. Over time the distilled water will pick up minerals from engine parts. Change the coolant and flush the system to keep it clean.
Last edited by Kool88vette; Jun 9, 2007 at 12:30 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
As far as I know, distilling gets you more organic purity, but not as much ionic purity. So it's not as aggressive as deionized water. But it's also more conductive.
DI water is more for lab purity where dissolved metals can harm experiments. Distilled is more for drinking / sanitizing to remove bacteria.
You can have aggressive water, or you can have conductive water. Pick one. The water wants to have ions in it. If you remove them, it will get them from somewhere else. I would also avoid using websites that are hawking crap as a scientific reference.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Jun 9, 2007 at 02:10 AM.
Large Impressive Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,811
Likes: 71
From: Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
St. Jude Donor '04-'05-'06-'07
No, my vote is DO NOT SWITCH coolants.
If the car came with glycol, stick with glycol. If it has Dexcool, stick
with Dexcool. The two coolants are incompatible, numerous expensive
issues arising from mixing them are mattes of public record and lawsuits.
You can't flush Dexcool completely from a system, even if you succeeded
there would still be residue from the coolant that had seeped into gaskets
and hoses. People have suggested changing over after a total rebuild
- what about the heater, radiator, water pump and so on?
If still unconvinced, then at least search the archives here and on
the web before proceeding
As for the 'compatible with everything' coolants: sorry, I have no
confidence that I would ever be able to collect if they turned out to
be incompatible. I couldn't be convinced to trust and try.
.
If the car came with glycol, stick with glycol. If it has Dexcool, stick
with Dexcool. The two coolants are incompatible, numerous expensive
issues arising from mixing them are mattes of public record and lawsuits.
You can't flush Dexcool completely from a system, even if you succeeded
there would still be residue from the coolant that had seeped into gaskets
and hoses. People have suggested changing over after a total rebuild
- what about the heater, radiator, water pump and so on?
If still unconvinced, then at least search the archives here and on
the web before proceeding
As for the 'compatible with everything' coolants: sorry, I have no
confidence that I would ever be able to collect if they turned out to
be incompatible. I couldn't be convinced to trust and try.
.
Like you, I also don't buy the "compatible with all" coolant BS either. It just doesn't add up with what I have learned about coolant types over the years.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,413
Likes: 9
From: The Old Dominion
If you buy coolant that is pre-mixed, look at the bottle. It will say they mixed it with de-ionized water (distilled is expensive). I am not sure they'd do that if it weren't the appropriate way to mix coolant.
The reason I don't like Dexcool (such as came in later C4s) and other extended life coolants is this. They are much more easily contaminated than conventional ethylene glycol. For instance, if you add 10% of system capacity of tap water to the system, you just destroyed it's chemical protective properties.
I agree though, there's more to evaluating coolant than checking the ratio. If you have doubts about the coolant, drain it out and refill it. It's neither hard to do, nor particularly expensive, and a lot is riding on it doing its job. FWIW to the original poster, my car takes about 3 gallons of coolant, though we don't have the same engine.
Last edited by Aurora40; Jun 9, 2007 at 10:02 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,413
Likes: 9
From: The Old Dominion
If you have a brand new battery that is empty (marine/deep cycle batteries are sometimes sold this way), and you put nothing but distilled water in there, I doubt it would ever hold a charge. You fill it initially with battery acid. Then afterwards you can maintain it with distilled water.
Last edited by Aurora40; Jun 9, 2007 at 10:08 AM.
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
But it will dissolve the metals in your system, and become an electrolyte at the expense of your metals.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,845
Likes: 30
....let me "shift gears" here a second.....after all was said and done (as in my 1st post on this thread), my temps are running 8*-10* WARMER!.
....all capacities, fans, burping, EVERYTHING etc was done properly.
....however, the ONLY difference from when i started to the end result was that i did NOT add a bottle of WATER WETTER......i am now curious as to if that could be the contributing factor as it says that the stuff lowers temps 10* +/-....any reasonable opinions?....
....all capacities, fans, burping, EVERYTHING etc was done properly.
....however, the ONLY difference from when i started to the end result was that i did NOT add a bottle of WATER WETTER......i am now curious as to if that could be the contributing factor as it says that the stuff lowers temps 10* +/-....any reasonable opinions?....
