FX3 Performance
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
FX3 Performance
Hi
I slipped over from the C3 forum and have a question for you C4 guys about the FX3 suspension system. I'm doing research for a '55 belair project, and am looking into the Paul Newman Car Creations conversion to C4 suspension. I've heard the FX3 is impressive but can be a huge pain, what do you guys with the system have to say about it? Install complexity aside, would you recommend it?
Thanks,
Greg
I slipped over from the C3 forum and have a question for you C4 guys about the FX3 suspension system. I'm doing research for a '55 belair project, and am looking into the Paul Newman Car Creations conversion to C4 suspension. I've heard the FX3 is impressive but can be a huge pain, what do you guys with the system have to say about it? Install complexity aside, would you recommend it?
Thanks,
Greg
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,009
Likes: 1
From: Springfield MO
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
Honestly I can't feel much difference in any of the selective positions. If anything I can feel a small difference while switched to touring mode. But it may be psychological. Its cool to tell people about :D
Good luck if you decide to go with the conversion.
Good luck if you decide to go with the conversion.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,178
Likes: 2
From: Windermere FL
Re: FX3 Performance (AS84)
I've heard in the stock configuration its pretty useless but I believe Ligenfelter? makes custom stuff to go with it so you can program it and make it have a real impact on handling and comfort.
92TripleBlack :cheers:
92TripleBlack :cheers:
Race Director
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 17,101
Likes: 5
From: No more yankee my wankee, the Donger is tired!
Re: FX3 Performance (92TripleBlack)
I've heard in the stock configuration its pretty useless but I believe Ligenfelter? makes custom stuff to go with it so you can program it and make it have a real impact on handling and comfort.
92TripleBlack :cheers:
92TripleBlack :cheers:
The only set back is cost for replacement parts.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
DRM has a pretty good FX3 setup and they are right in my back yard, that was one of the reasons I decided on the C4 conversion. But I've never experienced the FX3 setup, so I'm not convinced it would be worth the extra hassle.
Greg
Greg
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: SLIDELL, LA.
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
i was really sure about it before i bought my car, one of the reasons i bought the car was it had very low mileage, and it happen to have the fx3 suspension. well i like it alot. haven't run any autocross yet but i can tell a difference in selection on the choppy roads in louisiana. i understand that you can send them back to the manufacturer and get them tuned if not satisfied with the stock setup. also heard it can be pricey to fix. i still like it.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: 101 Edgemere Ave.
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
Its worse than useless crap. Its a hazard as far as I am concerned.
Tour mode: Not enough compression dampening to stop the car from bottoming out on even modest g-outs. Not much of a ride difference from "Sport Mode". If you forget you are in "Tour mode" and take off after someone then first positive g-out you hit you put your life in grave danger (our you compress your spinal column when you bottom out). Its a hazard and this mode should be blocked as a driver selection.
Sport mode: All around ok. Guess these are stock single mode bilsteins when you have selected this mode.
Competition mode: Rough ride for sure. Steps out sideways on public roads that have rough pavement in the turns. Its a little like "Tour mode" in that if you forget and take off after someone (and go screaming into a corner with rough pavement) you may be introducing yourself to the guard rail. Its also a hazard and should be blocked from the driver selecting it as far as I am concerned. Does work well on glassy smooth roads that must exist "somewhere".
And then it breaks and raises a warning light on your dash.
I highly recommend it.
Justin
92 6-speed, Ripper, GS brakes
Tour mode: Not enough compression dampening to stop the car from bottoming out on even modest g-outs. Not much of a ride difference from "Sport Mode". If you forget you are in "Tour mode" and take off after someone then first positive g-out you hit you put your life in grave danger (our you compress your spinal column when you bottom out). Its a hazard and this mode should be blocked as a driver selection.
Sport mode: All around ok. Guess these are stock single mode bilsteins when you have selected this mode.
Competition mode: Rough ride for sure. Steps out sideways on public roads that have rough pavement in the turns. Its a little like "Tour mode" in that if you forget and take off after someone (and go screaming into a corner with rough pavement) you may be introducing yourself to the guard rail. Its also a hazard and should be blocked from the driver selecting it as far as I am concerned. Does work well on glassy smooth roads that must exist "somewhere".
And then it breaks and raises a warning light on your dash.
I highly recommend it.
Justin
92 6-speed, Ripper, GS brakes
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Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
Injected, I think I'm one of the few on the Forum that have spent a fair amount of time studying the controller maps and valving of the FX3 system. When I first bought the car 5 years ago, I was going to dump the setup out of hand and instal Koni's or similar. Then I talked to Chuck Mallett. He suggested that I investigate getting them custom valved and get a new controller. He stated that properly setup, it was a real benefit during the Corvette Challenge days. I followed his advice and spent a lot of time talking to Bilstein and Peter at Rippie. Bottom line is, I've got a tremendous amount of adjustability that allows me to tune the suspension for the different tracks that I run.
Does that mean anything to a street rodder? Probably not. My guess is that after all the effort and expense, you would likely settle in on a particular setting and forget it. For your application, it sounds to me like you would be well served to get a set of Koni single adjustable shocks. Once you get them set the way you like them, let 'em alone and have a ball just cruising.
Does that mean anything to a street rodder? Probably not. My guess is that after all the effort and expense, you would likely settle in on a particular setting and forget it. For your application, it sounds to me like you would be well served to get a set of Koni single adjustable shocks. Once you get them set the way you like them, let 'em alone and have a ball just cruising.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: sometown new york
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
I have a 91 with the FX3, I LOVE IT. The shocks have been revalved to 96 specs and I put in an adjustable controller. There are dozens of preprogrammed chips from Bilstien or you can have one custom burned. I have the Road Race 1 and Autocross 2 chips. Switching chips only takes 5 minutes. I will be getting a custom chip for the daily race, um...I mean commute, yeh, that's it...commute. Each chip has 3 programs so, it's pretty versitle. My street chip will have the following: 1) stock medium, 2) Road Race1 medium, 3) Drag race - full soft front/rear to 40mph, 50% front/20%rear to 70mph, and 80% front/rear over 70mph.
The system is useful to me because my car is a dual purpose car: daily, and autox. It is great to have on the different autox courses I run. Every course has it's own demands.
The system is useful to me because my car is a dual purpose car: daily, and autox. It is great to have on the different autox courses I run. Every course has it's own demands.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati OH
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
My personal opinion is that it's a gimmick. On my Z07 (Z51) I can barely tell a difference between the settings. The touring setting feels a bit floaty (seems like rebound damping is lessened :confused: ), but there's not much difference that I can feel between the three modes, any difference may even be my imagination. Mine crashes over bumps in all three modes, so it stays in performance mode all the time, no extra comfort in the other modes. It's just added complexity and cost as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the custom programs some tuners provide are useful, but I still think it's not worth the cost and complexity, just pick the right shocks and springs up front and be happy with them :) .
Racer
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: sometown new york
Re: FX3 Performance (Vince Ivanc)
It is hard to tell the difference between the 3 stock modes driving around town. Looking at the stock program parameters helps explain why. You have to drive hard to feel any real difference.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: Evanston IL
Re: FX3 Performance (Vince Ivanc)
Have a '94 vert with FX3 that is only street driven, and usually in congested urban traffic. In my driving, I can't tell the difference between the three settings. On the highway, my rearview mirror vibrates too much in the competition mode to be able to make out images. I leave mine in sport mode all the time.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 9,713
Likes: 3
From: Sachse Texas
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: FX3 Performance (Vince Ivanc)
When it works I like it a LOT. I find there is quite a bit of difference between the 3 settings. When it is broken, it is expensive to repair.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 17,786
Likes: 5
From: Florida
Re: FX3 Performance (Vette92)
I didn't really begin to notice a "feel" difference until I started playing around with the system on the freeway at 75mph+. The tour mode is definitely more "sloshie" and I usually keep it there for normal commutes because I have a very short (3 mile) drive and it's smoother that way. Sport mode is probably the best overall of the three. Performance mode will jar your body more on irregular roads and the little reflectors between the lanes will be felt much more.
Clearly, the factory FX3 set-up is a compromise over its true capabilities. Custom programming and valving is what you need to optimize it.
Clearly, the factory FX3 set-up is a compromise over its true capabilities. Custom programming and valving is what you need to optimize it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,505
Likes: 42
From: Nashua NH
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
I really like it in mine. I think when they are working well it is a great setup. I can feel the difference between tour and perf, but I don't feel much in sport. Its when something goes wrong witht the system that it becomes a real PITA.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 21,094
Likes: 282
From: Phila., PA burbs
Re: FX3 Performance (Justin Scherer)
Its worse than useless crap. Its a hazard as far as I am concerned.
Tour mode: Not enough compression dampening to stop the car from bottoming out on even modest g-outs. Not much of a ride difference from "Sport Mode". If you forget you are in "Tour mode" and take off after someone then first positive g-out you hit you put your life in grave danger (our you compress your spinal column when you bottom out). Its a hazard and this mode should be blocked as a driver selection.
And then it breaks and raises a warning light on your dash.
I highly recommend it.
Justin
92 6-speed, Ripper, GS brakes
Tour mode: Not enough compression dampening to stop the car from bottoming out on even modest g-outs. Not much of a ride difference from "Sport Mode". If you forget you are in "Tour mode" and take off after someone then first positive g-out you hit you put your life in grave danger (our you compress your spinal column when you bottom out). Its a hazard and this mode should be blocked as a driver selection.
And then it breaks and raises a warning light on your dash.
I highly recommend it.
Justin
92 6-speed, Ripper, GS brakes
When I first got the car I could not tell a difference between the modes, but now I believe I can feel a difference between the three and have grown to appreciate each for specific situations:
Touring Perfect mode for those back country roads (if you have any of those in your area) that have occasional dips and curves (posssibly even a pothole or two) but are relatively smooth and non-challenging roads.
Sport Great for all-around driving. I leave it in this mode 90% of the time and it handles almost all situations very well. The vehicle still handles fanastic without having to feel every pebble in the road.
Performance Just as described, the car handles the best in this mode. It definitly feels tighter in corners, but the ride quality is sacrificed.......every bump feels like a crater!
Hope this helps :flag
[Modified by TA, 1:00 AM 10/27/2001] : :
[Modified by TA, 1:01 AM 10/27/2001]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,388
Likes: 42
From: Murrysville PA
Re: FX3 Performance (TA)
I agree with TA. My 89 has FX3 and to me it works. Maybe the 89 has a different program since it was the first year? I don't know. I usually leave my car in touring mode. I never bottom out. There is a very noticble difference in my car between tour and comp. The roads are so bumpy here in PA that Comp is just about impossible to use.
Jason
Jason
Racer
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
From: Claremont CA USA
Re: FX3 Performance (Injected)
Greg,
Hrocks knows what he's talking about - if the shocks are not worn out (as in just about every C4 with normal milage) the system works exceptionally well and there is a noticable difference in damping at speed. You can also modify the valving and controller to get just about anything you want - something that just can't be done with any other type of shock. Unless you're going to drive that Belair like a sports car however the FX-3 system might not do you a whole lot of good.
Since it's likely that Bilstein doesn't have a lot of experience setting up the shock valving for a Belair it's probably going to take you a few tries to get both the shocks and the controller right - but it would be very cool.....
Great picture - I hope he didn't break that arm falling out of the C3 :)
Bob Johnson
92 6spd coupe (FX-3)
Hrocks knows what he's talking about - if the shocks are not worn out (as in just about every C4 with normal milage) the system works exceptionally well and there is a noticable difference in damping at speed. You can also modify the valving and controller to get just about anything you want - something that just can't be done with any other type of shock. Unless you're going to drive that Belair like a sports car however the FX-3 system might not do you a whole lot of good.
Since it's likely that Bilstein doesn't have a lot of experience setting up the shock valving for a Belair it's probably going to take you a few tries to get both the shocks and the controller right - but it would be very cool.....
Great picture - I hope he didn't break that arm falling out of the C3 :)
Bob Johnson
92 6spd coupe (FX-3)
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: 101 Edgemere Ave.
Re: FX3 Performance (89vette)
One caveat: If I were an autocrosser I'm sure I would appreciate Competition Mode at least. And if I were a chef I would certainly appreciate Tour Mode a lot more ((Never can tell when you need to whip up a quick batch of "pancakes" on an undulating country road.))
Justin
92 6-speed, Ripper GS brakes
didn't know you could custom program FX3 with some effort. That would have a lot of possibilities.
Justin
92 6-speed, Ripper GS brakes
didn't know you could custom program FX3 with some effort. That would have a lot of possibilities.