Calling Clutch Guru's
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
Calling Clutch Guru's
Last night I got on it a bit. Well, OK, I got on all of it from a stop light.
It took off quick but something was not right and the smell of burnt rubber was not coming from the tires.
Any way, I checked it again tonight and sure enough the clutch is slipping. Not bad but enough to worry about.
The car is a 1984 4x3 tranny, All stock.
Is this a job that you kick yourself afterwards for even worrying about 'cause it was so easy or should I be looking at my local trusted shop? (CentralCoaster, you chiming in at this point would be perfect)
How much should I be thinking as far as buying the parts?
How much should a Shop be charging for the whole R and R?
It took off quick but something was not right and the smell of burnt rubber was not coming from the tires.
Any way, I checked it again tonight and sure enough the clutch is slipping. Not bad but enough to worry about.
The car is a 1984 4x3 tranny, All stock.
Is this a job that you kick yourself afterwards for even worrying about 'cause it was so easy or should I be looking at my local trusted shop? (CentralCoaster, you chiming in at this point would be perfect)
How much should I be thinking as far as buying the parts?
How much should a Shop be charging for the whole R and R?
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
if it's like doing the ZF6 clutch, it's not all that bad, really.
I did mine in my 92 and it went ok. Just takes time. First timer, dedicate a weekend.
Do you have visions of doing any performance enhancements? If so, an upgraded clutch won't hurt... but otherwise, stick with stock and it will be ok.
You may be able to machine the existing flywheel, I don't know the throw-a-way thickness, tho. Check the Helm for that measurement.
I would do u-joints at the same time. Also, replace the rear main seal! It's more than likely leaking and gee, the tranny is out... might as well.
I don't know about leaks on the box itself. But if there are weapy seals, I would do them, too... and I guess a filter and fluid change won't hurt that, either.
Don't bother with the Ecklers short shift kit... More than one member has bought that POS... and been very disappointed.
I did mine in my 92 and it went ok. Just takes time. First timer, dedicate a weekend.
Do you have visions of doing any performance enhancements? If so, an upgraded clutch won't hurt... but otherwise, stick with stock and it will be ok.
You may be able to machine the existing flywheel, I don't know the throw-a-way thickness, tho. Check the Helm for that measurement.
I would do u-joints at the same time. Also, replace the rear main seal! It's more than likely leaking and gee, the tranny is out... might as well.
I don't know about leaks on the box itself. But if there are weapy seals, I would do them, too... and I guess a filter and fluid change won't hurt that, either.
Don't bother with the Ecklers short shift kit... More than one member has bought that POS... and been very disappointed.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
My 'shop' will charge you $500 with the clutch set included. And on top of that, you get to hand me tools and see how its done so you can do it with confidence if there is a next time. 
Or if you want to pop your cherry now, I'll guide you through it.
The C-beam is a bitch to remove, worse to reinstall, and the trans is kinda a bitch to reinstall. The tunnel is just too damn small. If it wasn't for that part, it'd be easy.
At the very least, I recommend a Harbor freight tranny jack, (2) 6-ton stands, (2) 3-ton stands, which will run you about $150 assuming you already have the floor jack.
The flywheel will probably have to be turned though. This is the tricky part on my offer. Either we'd need to buy another flywheel beforehand ($100+), or get lucky and find a place here that can turn it while you wait(~$25) or bribe them as needed, else it's no longer a one-day job.
Maybe someone on the forum has a used flywheel you can buy cheap (free+shipping) and take it somewhere to get turned and have it ready to go.
Edit.. Kragen has the flywheel new for $65, that's a damn good price.
Or if you want to pop your cherry now, I'll guide you through it. The C-beam is a bitch to remove, worse to reinstall, and the trans is kinda a bitch to reinstall. The tunnel is just too damn small. If it wasn't for that part, it'd be easy.
At the very least, I recommend a Harbor freight tranny jack, (2) 6-ton stands, (2) 3-ton stands, which will run you about $150 assuming you already have the floor jack.
The flywheel will probably have to be turned though. This is the tricky part on my offer. Either we'd need to buy another flywheel beforehand ($100+), or get lucky and find a place here that can turn it while you wait(~$25) or bribe them as needed, else it's no longer a one-day job.
Maybe someone on the forum has a used flywheel you can buy cheap (free+shipping) and take it somewhere to get turned and have it ready to go.
Edit.. Kragen has the flywheel new for $65, that's a damn good price.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Jun 17, 2007 at 03:42 AM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
So I need to be compiling a list of items prior to starting the job?
CC, your 'shop'........just plan a day in my schedule with you and then drive down there?
*edit*
And speaking of rear main oil seal, I have a receipt in my file from the previous owner whereas they were in all this area at 52k. The car has just over 70k could the rear main be leaking onto the clutch? Would a clutch suffer from sitting up for almost 10 years?
CC, your 'shop'........just plan a day in my schedule with you and then drive down there?
*edit*
And speaking of rear main oil seal, I have a receipt in my file from the previous owner whereas they were in all this area at 52k. The car has just over 70k could the rear main be leaking onto the clutch? Would a clutch suffer from sitting up for almost 10 years?
Last edited by jhammons01; Jun 17, 2007 at 11:51 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
They dry out... they shrink... you name it. It's not good.
For the cost of the part (not much) I would replace it.
Oil will get on the back side of the flywheel. I suspect what gets on the clutch is spray from the slave.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
YES! Sitting is the WORST thing that can happen to a seal.
They dry out... they shrink... you name it. It's not good.
For the cost of the part (not much) I would replace it.
Oil will get on the back side of the flywheel. I suspect what gets on the clutch is spray from the slave.
They dry out... they shrink... you name it. It's not good.
For the cost of the part (not much) I would replace it.
Oil will get on the back side of the flywheel. I suspect what gets on the clutch is spray from the slave.
The clutch pad itself. What I am angling at.......is......Could the oil be getting on the clutch itself causing the slip, or is it just gone once it slips? I'm attempting to be cheap. Not that i don't have the money......rather...I just a cheap SOB
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Oh, come on... this is a major part of the drive line. Being cheap isn't going to keep you going... and do you REALLY want to dig into a clutch in 6 months just to save $30.00 now?
A few givens:
always replace the rear main seal
always replace the pilot bushing
always replace the disc
always replace the pressure plate.
as for oil... I don't see how it can actually make its way to the friction surface... the seal is in front, but there is the flywheel between the oil and the clutch.
If there is slippage, 90% of the time, the disc is the problem. But you don't know if the machined surface of the pressure plate has been compromised or not. slippage = heat = hot spots.
For me, going cheap is getting the best price on the best replacement part, not picking and choosing which part to replace. This way, YOU know it's new and good.
A few givens:
always replace the rear main seal
always replace the pilot bushing
always replace the disc
always replace the pressure plate.
as for oil... I don't see how it can actually make its way to the friction surface... the seal is in front, but there is the flywheel between the oil and the clutch.
If there is slippage, 90% of the time, the disc is the problem. But you don't know if the machined surface of the pressure plate has been compromised or not. slippage = heat = hot spots.
For me, going cheap is getting the best price on the best replacement part, not picking and choosing which part to replace. This way, YOU know it's new and good.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
Look dude, you are being far too reasonable.
Are you sure you realize who you are talking too? Sad thing is you have actually met me so you should know better.
Aight aight. I'll be sourcing all the parts to do the job, or talking with CC about getting all these parts together.
Are you sure you realize who you are talking too? Sad thing is you have actually met me so you should know better.
Aight aight. I'll be sourcing all the parts to do the job, or talking with CC about getting all these parts together.
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Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
Look dude, you are being far too reasonable.
Are you sure you realize who you are talking too? Sad thing is you have actually met me so you should know better.
Aight aight. I'll be sourcing all the parts to do the job, or talking with CC about getting all these parts together.
Are you sure you realize who you are talking too? Sad thing is you have actually met me so you should know better.
Aight aight. I'll be sourcing all the parts to do the job, or talking with CC about getting all these parts together.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Sitting won't hurt the clutch. All 2-pc rear main seals leak to some degree. If it's just a little bit of goo on there, I would not touch it. Getting a new one on there to not leak is a bit of a crapshoot.
It don't see a leaking rear main getting onto the clutch unless it's reallllllly bad. There is a very small space between the flywheel and bellhousing, realistically the worst that would happen is it would leak and fling into the clutch dust in the bellhousing and make carbon mud.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Jun 17, 2007 at 03:38 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 40,156
Likes: 45
From: San Pedro CA
that's what I am thinking.
if there is oil in the clutch, I am betting it comes from a leaky slave spraying fluid in past its seals.
I forgot, his car has the 2 piece rear main... a bit trickier to replace.
if there is oil in the clutch, I am betting it comes from a leaky slave spraying fluid in past its seals.
I forgot, his car has the 2 piece rear main... a bit trickier to replace.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Only if it is leaking.
When the car sits for long periods of time, the seals dry and can bond to the metal parts. Then when you fire it up, it makes very small tears in the sealing surface. Also, the seal will tend to wear a groove in the crank over time. If this is the case, a new seal can make it worse unless you install a speedy-seal. But there is no such thing as a speedy seal for the rear of the crank, you have to remove the crank and turn it, which is not a "speedy" process.
In the top of this photo, just above the oil staining, you can see two grooves cut in by the lips on the rubber seal.
I don't see how a leaking clutch slave would get onto the clutch. A leaking input shaft seal is the only thing I could see getting on there. These are easy to replace.
When the car sits for long periods of time, the seals dry and can bond to the metal parts. Then when you fire it up, it makes very small tears in the sealing surface. Also, the seal will tend to wear a groove in the crank over time. If this is the case, a new seal can make it worse unless you install a speedy-seal. But there is no such thing as a speedy seal for the rear of the crank, you have to remove the crank and turn it, which is not a "speedy" process.
In the top of this photo, just above the oil staining, you can see two grooves cut in by the lips on the rubber seal.
I don't see how a leaking clutch slave would get onto the clutch. A leaking input shaft seal is the only thing I could see getting on there. These are easy to replace.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Jun 17, 2007 at 05:21 PM.
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From: Indianapolis IN
Race Director
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From: Indianapolis IN
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
I'm getting mixed signals here. First there is the oil seal thingy and now CCs avatar is "Prep H"
Are you trying to tell me something
CC, did you talk to Bogus? What did he say about me??? prolly all true
Are you trying to tell me something
CC, did you talk to Bogus? What did he say about me??? prolly all true
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
The forum was getting a little over-sensitive in general, so I thought that would help.
Some people around here can't be told they're wrong, or even questioned without taking it personally (not you). I guess facts don't stand on their own anymore on this forum, now you have to serve them with tender loving care, and ointment.
Some people around here can't be told they're wrong, or even questioned without taking it personally (not you). I guess facts don't stand on their own anymore on this forum, now you have to serve them with tender loving care, and ointment.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Jun 18, 2007 at 09:54 PM. Reason: corrected spelling so kool88vette doesn't have to invade this thread and do it for me.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,226
Likes: 9
From: Irvine Ca
Bwhahahaahahaaaaa, I'm cryin'
Just so you know, I'll say what I think and I hope to god the ones that truly know the answer correct me. I have no qualms being wrong, but I like to think some of my wrong assumptions open up dialog that leads to actual learning.
And that my friend is reason for a forum.
But yes, some cannot stand to be corrected and follow up with a round of sitting, cussing and stomping.
When are you going to collect that Fuddruckers burger and beer?
Every Tuesday on El Toro.
Let me know however, I don't always go.
Just so you know, I'll say what I think and I hope to god the ones that truly know the answer correct me. I have no qualms being wrong, but I like to think some of my wrong assumptions open up dialog that leads to actual learning.
And that my friend is reason for a forum.
But yes, some cannot stand to be corrected and follow up with a round of sitting, cussing and stomping.
When are you going to collect that Fuddruckers burger and beer?
Every Tuesday on El Toro.
Let me know however, I don't always go.