I would say that a hired mechanic is a waste of money (and your time)...Lift not necessary; jack and jack stands will let you get under there...trans experience not required; here's what you will see after disconnecting the linkage, switches, and pulling the cover off...



The red circles are the forks, laying flopped down in their slider grooves...(these are what I originally tied upright with thread when I replaced my cover gasket in-car)...

Here's what the cover looks like - note that I left the yokes in the cover so I'd know which way they faced...



I've read that it's possible to insert the cover with forks installed (and trans in 2nd gear) but I couldn't get mine to go in...I finally installed the forks on the sliders and tied the shafts up and slipped the cover on...real easy, very quick...

 

Rich, thanks for those great pictures and description. Now I understand what you meant in your earlier posts regarding the side cover.

It is a job I would be able to do myself if I did not have to crawl under the car. I am deadly afraid to crawl under a car that low; it is lower than my Iroc and I have partially crawled under it (scary to me).

How long would this job take if the car were on a lift? This way I will know if a "professional" would be quoting a fair hour estimate.

I usually do stuff myself but when it comes to the bottom end where I would be under the car, I don't try to fight that battle (I do not trust jack stands (personal thing) and the wife would not be happy about it either). If I find a reputable mechanic, I'd rather have it done. I've only been in Central FL for 2 yrs and do not have a good mechanic here. I was given the name of a local guy and I might go and chat with him (not sure if I would use him but it won't hurt to go talk to him and find out what kind of work he does). When I lived up in NE OH, I had a really good and honest guy I had known since 1994. He is also into racing and is a real car nut himself. There is a chance I might be moving back to my old area up North (if so, I might hold off and have him do the work for me; it will cost me $$ but I know it will be done right).

Thanks again. I really appreciate you sharing your experiences. It helps the rest of us, who are "new" to this side of the car, a lot.

If the 4+3 ever needed rebuilt, I personally would look into buying a new ZF6 and having it swapped out. Is my assumption that: ZF6, Clutch, Shfiter, ECM (or ECM chip from a 1989) would be all the parts needed to upgrade a 1988 4+3? Or is there a whole bunch more?

I'm curious what made you go the route of redoing the 4+3 instead of a ZF6?

Thanks again.

 

Add driveshaft to the list. The 4+3 used a shorter one.

 

And a Camaro flywheel...with .090" machined off...(the ZF6 used a different diameter, IIRC...plus it was a dual-mass affair)...I don't think you need the later ECM...the ZF is a mechanical overdrive, not computer-driven...

There's some great threads here (probably in the Archives by now) on the ZF swap...

But if I was spending $$$, I'd get the Tremec 5-speed from Kiesler...their kit includes everything...for ~$3400...

[img][/img]

http://keislerauto.com/recent-news/k...ssic-cars.html

Edit: Sorry; I forgot...The 4+3 rebuild was cheaper than the Tremec...by about half...and as you can tell by my pics, I'd been expecting to change out the trans eventually...(Eagle lift + trans jack)...

I had previously considered the ZF swap...but a used [read: eBay] ZF can be just as in need of a rebuild as a DNE 4+3...after all, there had to be some reason the PO pulled it out...

 

While waiting for my clutch kit to arrive, I visited Fleet Pride in Cheektowaga NY yesterday for a yoke & two u-joints...they had to order the yoke, so I left the driveshaft...the clutch kit from RockAuto arrived today; I spent the morning installing it and the bellhousing, and then the transmission...the driveshaft was done by 2:30, so I picked it up and installed that and the torque beam, too...



I couldn't take pics while working; too much oil, grease, and Never-Seize on my hands...

That Harbor Freight Hi-Boy trans jack is really a great time saver...well, so is the 4-post lift, too...

Curious thing about the clutch; the one I took out was 10 1/2", the new one (and all the other brand-name choices as well) was 10 3/4"...it all fit, though; so far, so good... (I measured the thickness of the old friction disk - .310" vs .340" for the new disk)...

The torque beam was the last thing I installed today; it took me quite a bit to puzzle out how to get it in...finally tipped the motor/trans unit down as far as possible, and poked the beam up from the back and to the side, then cranked the motor/trans back up in place...the copper-colored bolt heads on the torque beam are from the nuclear-grade Never-Seize I liberally coated the bolts & nuts with...don't want them seizing up...(nuclear-grade is for steam and boiler applications; high heat resistance)...

Slave cylinder went right back in the same as it came out, no problem; and no need to open the line...

Tomorrow I'll get the exhaust back on, then the cross-braces. Hopefully I have enough cash on hand for ATF and gear oil. I'll top the trans/OD up before I lower it down to setup the shifter synchronization. Stripping all that fascia out to get at the shifter is a PITA...I'm going to cut a big hole to access it from inside without the fascia crap...I need to replace one bulb in the dash display anyway...

After that I'm thinking of pushing it out in my yard and planting flowers in it...

 

I finally got everything put back in today. Now I'm charging the battery <sigh>. (I changed the burned out halogen bulb in the dash display while the fascia was off, too). Someone up above suggested how to synchronize your shifter plates, but didn't post any pics. So here's a pic of what a shifter looks like being synchronized.



If this doesn't look exactly like yours, it's because it's a Hurst. This shifter actually does use the 1/4" drillbit quoted in some manuals to hold the plates in neutral. The C4 shifter has a rectangular slot and uses a tool measuring 3 1/2" long which has a 1 3/8" long .650" x .100" "tang" to insert into the shifter alignment slot. Here's a pic of the C4 shifter -



Both shifters use the same procedure outlined in the manuals - insert the drillbit/tool to lock the plates in neutral; snug the shifter rod nuts up to the pivot; and then snug them down. These are the rod nuts -



Then remove the drillbit/tool and make sure it all shifts smoothly. Corvette shifters are notorious for "spreading" over the years, and the snap ring wears, too. If you've never adjusted your shifter (it's a good idea to remove it and clean it if nothing else), I heartily suggest you do so, and clean out the cavity the shifter sits in. I found hairpins, a butane lighter, a small penlight, two cigarettes, lots of used matches, assorted screws, an old overdrive switch (in addition to the installed overdrive switch), and some unidentifiable stuff that I classed as "junk" in there.

Here's a shot of what all has to be removed to get at the shifter. Glovebox cover; shifter surround; radio/AC surround; dash fascia; trans tunnel kick panel. I also remove the seat (only 4 bolts) to get in there easier.





That takes care of the shifter. FWIW, my plate alignment was still right-on from when I swapped the Hurst shifter in several years ago. I also have one of those $20 short-shift link kits installed; they are the single best upgrade for the C4, IMHO. If you do install the short-shift links, you *will* have to adjust your shifter, as the rods will be out of position with the new links. Someone in another thread had installed the short-shift links without adjusting the shift rods and was having trouble getting the trans to shift...gotta adjust/align them shifter plates!

Gearbox & diff have been topped off with 80-90w Gear Oil; overdrive topped off with ATF. If all goes right, I should be able to take it out for a test drive in a day or so...

 

Made it to my favorite bar thursday night; picked up that '85 DNE 4+3...Looks pretty good, huh???




Contrary to what the PO said, it does shift into reverse...and all other gears as well...(on the bench)...

I dropped the OD pan...here's what that looks like...



Lots of aluminum chips and aluminum sludge...and some steel chips as well...

I doubt that OD will ever work again...but the gearbox section looks OK inside; no chips or sludge, synchros are within limits, bearings sound OK...

I'm going to look for a super T-10 and see if I can fab/weld up a torque beam adapter like the one Kiesler uses on their 5-speed conversions...

...Just in case...

 

Yes.....Installed.

 

Thanks! I'll remember that, just in case some other poor Vette 4+3 owner nearby wants a trans/OD swapped, I'll know what to charge...

 

Labor Day weekend; perfect time to get the Vette out & running!

Unfortunately, my Garage Queen is still sitting in the garage...

I got bit by The Law Of Unintended Consequences...

You've never heard of it? It's when you do something, and as a result, something else changes...usually for the worse...

In my case, it was the hydraulic clutch master cylinder...I had excellent clutch action when I started all this, and since I didn't break the line, I thought it would be OK to go...but the fluid was pretty dirty, so I siphoned the excess out of the reservoir, filled it with new/clean, and fitted my bleeding apparatus to the slave cylinder...On the first stroke of the pedal, the master cylinder piston stuck in the bore...at the bottom of the stroke, of course...so no clutch release...

I had changed both master & slave (and the line, too) several years ago, so I wasn't expecting this...In retrospect, I suppose I should have known that a new clutch would have a different stroke and that the dirt, corrosion, etc that built up along the bore would foul the piston seal...

Well, RockAuto has both new cylinders and rebuild kits...I'll pull both cylinders off today, tear them down and inspect them...but I suspect I'll end up buying new (again!) as the rebuild kits just never seem to work as well as a nice, shiny, new bore...

 

I received a reply/comment from Paul Cangiolosi (on his Forum) as to the trash in the OD pan of that '85 overdrive..."The OD unit is wasted. Non reverse is caused by the reverse clutch pack slipping, although the manual part goes in reverse fine, Reverse mode requires the direct clutches to be functional for reverse. The carrier had been blown on this unit which creates excessive direct clutch clearance, thus the failure."...

Oh, well...Sometimes you eat the bear...sometimes the bear eats you...

 

Continuing with my quest to get the highest monthly VISA bill possible, I pulled the clutch cylinders off...No need to go into that here, except to say that it's a lot easier if you pull the seat out...

Here's a closeup of the clutch master cylinder, the one that stuck...before and after slamming it to dislodge the stuck piston...you can't see it in the 1st pic, but it actually popped up a bit when I took the rod/circlip off...it was stuck farther down...



Here's a closeup of the master cylinder piston...the "dry" looking part between the seals was where it hung up...



Here's a closeup of the bores of both cylinders...the master cylinder was actually pretty good; I could probably just rebuild it...but the slave had serious issues...(the dark spot + the rusty ring)...



I chucked them both in my used Corvette parts closet and ordered new ones...

Here's a pic of some parts you might want to mark down...the Nylon grommet is the only thing that holds the clutch master cylinder actuating rod to the clutch pedal...if you go far enough back (like '99 or '00), you'll find a thread here that I posted where my old grommet wore out and the clutch pedal jammed when the rod walked off the pedal pin...I safety wire mine on now...(that's it in the red circle)...





The copper gaskets go on each side of the clutch hydraulic line at the slave cylinder...(yellow arrow)...box of 10 from NAPA...

...Back to waiting for parts...just waiting...nothing to do but wait...

 

Damn Rich!

If this thread does not get Archived then non other deserve to be.

 

A member asked a question of how I 'pulled' the OD off of the main case...Here's a pic -



An old Toronado wheel was just the right size for the snout to fit into...

Pulling the OD off vertically keeps the reverse idler shaft thrust washer from falling into the gearcase...The idler shaft is pinned to the OD...

The wrench in the foreground is a Sears/Craftsman # 44366 17mm/19mm offset box wrench, for reaching that 'hidden' bolt under the OD...

Edit: Some of the pics have been deleted; I'm in the process of restoring them...

Here's the car, back on the road again!

 

What $$ is a 4+3 worth nowadays ?

 

Here's that reverse idler shaft thrust washer in place...You can just barely make it out (it's that silver line)...



Here it is off the shaft...Arrow pointing to where it goes...



If you take the OD off the gearbox while in-car [horizontally], this washer falls down into the gearbox sump...It may be possible to get it back in place in-car & horizontally, but I don't want to try it...

Much easier & less frustrating to pull the entire trans and lift the OD off vertically...and re-install it that way, too...

 

Doing a Search on eBay for 'Corvette 4+3', I found these prices (on the first page of the Search)...

$1,200.00, $300.00, $1,295.00, $799.99, $2,300.00, $2,299.99, $799.99, $799.99, $2,299.99, $999.99

Higher prices are listed as 'NOS GM'; some of the mid-range appear to be salvage yards; low end seems to be private owners...

 

I have one that was working when I pulled it out of the car I'll take 800.00 for it has about 68,000 miles on it. Want it send me an email.

 

Bob -

A fair price...Thanks for the offer!...I don't need it, as I just completed swapping in a 1982 Borg Warner Super T-10 without any overdrive unit...Pics in separate thread...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...rans-swap.html

...But I'm sure another member will be interested...

FWIW...Shipping by UPS would be approximately $90 for an ~80# transmission...That's what my 1982 Camaro Super T-10 cost to ship...