C4 Tech/Performance L98 Corvette and LT1 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine

383 with challenges

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Old Aug 5, 2007 | 04:14 PM
  #1  
vetteset8087's Avatar
vetteset8087
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From: Boise ID
Default 383 with challenges

Hey I am planning my winter project on my 87 I have made alot of mods
to this car but I can't stop. here is a list of mods question will follow

383 short block
KB Hyper pistons 9.86:1 compression
stock aluminum heads
stainless roller rockers tip & fulcrom
accell 30 injectors
stock plenum, runner and throttlebody

cam=Dur.@006 in.272 ex.282
Dur.@.050" in.218 ex.228
lobe lift int.328 ex.328
valve lift in.492 ex492 w/1.5 r/r
valve lash in. hyd ex.hyd
in.c/l 106 in.op 30 in.clo. 62 @ tapHGT.
Ex. C/l 118 Ex.Op. 79 ex.clo.23 @tap hgt
lobe seperation 112
valve spring information
seat pressure 100-120
open pressure 300-320

^^^^^from cam card

SDS-EFI EM4 (I think) ecu with hand held programmer
msd 6AL
stock manifolds
pre cats hollwed out
hi flow cat
flowmaster mufflers
running 12.8 -13.4 AFR (.64 V)
700r4 auto
3.54 rear gear

the problems I am having are first I can only get about 32 degrees timing advance before it sets off knock sensor (can this be from the 112 lobe seperation) and it eats distributor drive gears I have tried all the available gears and the the GM cintered metal gear will last about 3,000 miles I slotted the distributor housing and went to mobile 1 to see if it lasts longer so far i only have about 1,000 miles on it. I'm sure I am going to have to change the cam again but while i'm there I am thinking of changing the heads, intake, runners ,plennum and throttle body. The car runs awsum and has plenty of power but I think I am missing out on alot more. The rocker studs in the heads I think are too small for my setup I see alot of flexing with the engine running and valve covers off but I don't think I can fit a stud gurdle in the confined space between the rocker and pedestal. can you see any problems with my setup and can you advise me on the best top end set up. this car is a weekend warrior that I beat the crap out of on the streets and the occasional 200-300 mile trip on the freeway
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Old Aug 6, 2007 | 09:31 AM
  #2  
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mseven
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From: The Motor City
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Originally Posted by vetteset8087
the problems I am having are first I can only get about 32 degrees timing advance before it sets off knock sensor (can this be from the 112 lobe seperation) and it eats distributor drive gears
There are a few things
7/16 stud is always a good idea but will require rockers for them.
I don't think the 112 lsa has anything to do with sk. There can be a few reasons for spark knock, false and otherwise. If the basics are covered as to no false counts, noisy rockers motor mount bolt pass. side touching header etc. you will need to be looking at the tune. I presume you meant 13+ at wot, if that's the case it is a bit lean.
SDS-EFI EM4 (I think) ecu with hand held programmer
What is a "sds-efi em4? Is this a stand alone comp.management system? Never heard of any handheld programmer that can work on a 165 ecm.

How are you going about 32*? Are you talking closed loop or PE, and at what rpm? Are you adjusting the main spark table, or trying to tune from the dist. base timing? What's the blm look like now?

You need to post what cam gear, hardened, or ? and dist. gear. Has the intake been moded in any way to change the geometry of the dist. shaft to the cam, is the shaft on the dist. straight? what was cam endplay?

Last edited by mseven; Aug 6, 2007 at 09:42 AM.
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Old Aug 6, 2007 | 11:06 AM
  #3  
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vetteset8087
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From: Boise ID
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The rockers in this motor are a little noisey sewing machine noisey not ticking. I will check for loose bolts tonight But I would think if it had loose bolts they would have fallen out by now. Side touching header no I am using stock manifolds and they are clear. My WOT is 12.4-12.8 in open loop I will double check to be sure. The SDS-EM4 is a stand alone ecu heres a link www.sdsefi.com It is a crank trigger system that lets me adj timing every 250 rpm and fuel as well so distributor is not moved I don't reach 30 or 32* advance until 3250 rpm. I don't know what blm means please explain. The cam gear is supposed to be the same as stock so stock gear can be used. No mods to manifold as for the distributor shaft I have not checked it but this is the second distributor in this motor it ate the first one I don't think I got 2 bent shafts in a row cam gear still looks ok and wear pattern on dist gear is in the center of the gear and is consistant all the way around as what I am told is normal. Cam end play was not checked how do I check it? Thank you for taking the time to help
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Old Aug 6, 2007 | 12:03 PM
  #4  
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mseven
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From: The Motor City
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Originally Posted by vetteset8087
The SDS-EM4 is a stand alone ecu heres a link www.sdsefi.com It is a crank trigger system that lets me adj timing every 250 rpm and fuel as well so distributor is not moved I don't reach 30 or 32* advance until 3250 rpm. I don't know what blm means please explain. The cam gear is supposed to be the same as stock so stock gear can be used. No mods to manifold as for the distributor shaft I have not checked it but this is the second distributor in this motor it ate the first one I don't think I got 2 bent shafts in a row cam gear still looks ok and wear pattern on dist gear is in the center of the gear and is consistant all the way around as what I am told is normal. Cam end play was not checked how do I check it? Thank you for taking the time to help
I am not familiar w/using stand alones but am with typical tuning software and standard ecm's.
The 30 -32*@3250 does not seem high at all, a stock bin typically for the 165 ecm is over 40* at that rpm. However, knowing if it is going rich or lean would help (blm= block learn)128 BL (in closed loop) the "magic" number going below indicating rich (ie 118 etc.) and going above 130ish going lean. In a stock ecm application it cannot effectively compensate quickly enough to adjust, and while "supposedly" meeting stoich of 14.73 afr does not always prove true when verified with a AFR meter. Fuel pressure, BL's can play a role, and would be good to know as a point of refference. As a stand alone, and showing sk's, is it pulling timing away, and if so how much? If this is the only area, removing a 1/2* can sometimes go a long way (again depends on data). Where is the temp. and is there audible detonation, are other considerations. Is the fuel in the car good (another possible), where is the f.pressure, and have you taken a ride with the gauge taped to the windsheild to see what it is doing.
We are talking about the car being in closed loop for this part of the tuning or are you tuning to open loop?
Is this car still a MAF car (based on the stand alone management)? Sound like MAP from the product desciption.
Cam endplay would be checked w/timing cover off upon initial install of the cam to detemine cam walk, timing gear/chain allignment to crank etc. I suggested this to understand where the additonal wear maybe coming from. From your desciption of center wear on the d.gear, that doesn't sound like the problem, and I think some wear is normal. However, a new distributer doesn't insure the shaft being straight. I had to swap a couple out to get one that was reasonable.
It doesn't sound like excessively loud rockers, all seem to have the sewing machine sound. I believe that most SK can be attributted to real and not false.
Edit, reading the mods list I see the 6al. When I first installed this on mine (map)with an otherwise perfect tune I gained some sk in places. I first called MSD and asked if this was a common occourance, and the tech said yes. He attributed it to the increase in spark voltage (and where), and possible omptimzed timing. I then did 2 things, gapped the plugs out to 50 (from 40) and I also trimmed in some timing in a couple of areas. In map tuning I have also found that sk's can come from not having the VE's close. The lack of smoothness and and moving from lean/rich areas in ve table, and going through various trim cells produced some small kc's.

Last edited by mseven; Aug 6, 2007 at 12:55 PM.
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