yep, I was supporting your comment...500rwhp (NA) isn't common on an LT1/4 based motor 
high power N/A LT1/4 strokers
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
From: Portsmouth VA
As far as a 500 HP LTX motor, it's actually pretty common. Check out the LT1 section of www.cz28.com. The F-body guys on there are way ahead of the power curve over here.
500 at the wheel or 500 at the crank? i'm sure the info is on the site somewhere, but i don't wanna spend a bunch of time lookin it up if you have some links you can share that will point us right to it.
who's making quite a bit more than 500rwhp NA (no power adders) and doin it on pump gas? can you show me some of them? those are the ones i'd like to see... how about anybody that makes more... like 600RWHP NA (no power adders & on pump gas). that's more like what i'm making. 
see ya,
sonny
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,437
Likes: 1
From: Gainesville Fl
I'm pretty sure gearing would have to match up with what you wanna do with the car. Smaller gears get you moving quicker, but make you run out of rpms a bit quicker. On the other hand, taller gears "last" longer, giving you a higher speed, but your "off a dig" performance will suffer.[/QUOTE]
couldnt this be compensated for a little bit by getting that high horsepower from a bigger displacment motor so that the torque has a fairly high final number as well? for instance i would think if you got 500 flywheel horsepower from a 355 lt1/4 you wouldnt have near the bottom end power to launch as if you had a 500 horsepower lt1/4 with 409 cubic inches and a LOT more torque. Thats a difference of over 50 cubic inches! That Has to make a big difference on bottom end snap ur neck acceleration that gears provide. the bigger displacement motor might not need the gears to get the bottom end pull you need. if this is the case you could have ur cake and eat it too by being able to still launch with a lot of power and not wind out to quickly and still have the gearing for top end speed
couldnt this be compensated for a little bit by getting that high horsepower from a bigger displacment motor so that the torque has a fairly high final number as well? for instance i would think if you got 500 flywheel horsepower from a 355 lt1/4 you wouldnt have near the bottom end power to launch as if you had a 500 horsepower lt1/4 with 409 cubic inches and a LOT more torque. Thats a difference of over 50 cubic inches! That Has to make a big difference on bottom end snap ur neck acceleration that gears provide. the bigger displacement motor might not need the gears to get the bottom end pull you need. if this is the case you could have ur cake and eat it too by being able to still launch with a lot of power and not wind out to quickly and still have the gearing for top end speed
Last edited by 1996man; Aug 31, 2007 at 10:32 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,437
Likes: 1
From: Gainesville Fl
500 at the wheel or 500 at the crank? i'm sure the info is on the site somewhere, but i don't wanna spend a bunch of time lookin it up if you have some links you can share that will point us right to it. who's making quite a bit more than 500rwhp NA (no power adders) and doin it on pump gas? can you show me some of them? those are the ones i'd like to see... how about anybody that makes more... like 600RWHP NA (no power adders & on pump gas). that's more like what i'm making.
see ya,
sonny
who's making quite a bit more than 500rwhp NA (no power adders) and doin it on pump gas? can you show me some of them? those are the ones i'd like to see... how about anybody that makes more... like 600RWHP NA (no power adders & on pump gas). that's more like what i'm making. see ya,
sonny
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,012
Likes: 5
From: OKC OK
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,012
Likes: 5
From: OKC OK
500 at the wheel or 500 at the crank? i'm sure the info is on the site somewhere, but i don't wanna spend a bunch of time lookin it up if you have some links you can share that will point us right to it. who's making quite a bit more than 500rwhp NA (no power adders) and doin it on pump gas? can you show me some of them? those are the ones i'd like to see... how about anybody that makes more... like 600RWHP NA (no power adders & on pump gas). that's more like what i'm making.
see ya,
sonny
who's making quite a bit more than 500rwhp NA (no power adders) and doin it on pump gas? can you show me some of them? those are the ones i'd like to see... how about anybody that makes more... like 600RWHP NA (no power adders & on pump gas). that's more like what i'm making. see ya,
sonny
He can't been talking RWHP. I've been on that site as long as I've been here (if not longer) and there are only few (race) cars/motors making 500rwhp NA.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
From: Portsmouth VA
ok, i can't... you know more than i do. 
please tell me more about what i can't do. that is why i built the car the way i did. cuz people said i couldn't, and i thought that i could. and guess what... i did. guess i was right.
btw, i have a LT4 intake... just like i said. the number i have posted is with a 300 shot of laughing gas. i am talking about the same motor, same car... just different timing and without the spray. other than that, same set up.
feel free to watch one of my in-car videos if you like... this is me doing 197.5mph at the Maxton Monster Mile and setting another land speed record... and getting into Hot Rod Magazine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_0xDygXowg
see ya,
sonny
please tell me more about what i can't do. that is why i built the car the way i did. cuz people said i couldn't, and i thought that i could. and guess what... i did. guess i was right. btw, i have a LT4 intake... just like i said. the number i have posted is with a 300 shot of laughing gas. i am talking about the same motor, same car... just different timing and without the spray. other than that, same set up.
feel free to watch one of my in-car videos if you like... this is me doing 197.5mph at the Maxton Monster Mile and setting another land speed record... and getting into Hot Rod Magazine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_0xDygXowg
see ya,
sonny
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
From: Portsmouth VA
LT4Power,
did i misinterpret your last post? i thought you were saying that I couldn't have 500rwhp... maybe i read it wrong. if i did, i apologize. after re-reading it, i think you were actually supporting me and that 500at the wheel with no power adders and on pump gas is not that common or else everybody would be doing it... not just the camaro guys. what about the impala guys? i guess they should be doing it too. the camaro and the impala guys both need more power cuz their cars weigh more.
i dunno, it's late and maybe i'm sleepy. 
see ya,
sonny
did i misinterpret your last post? i thought you were saying that I couldn't have 500rwhp... maybe i read it wrong. if i did, i apologize. after re-reading it, i think you were actually supporting me and that 500at the wheel with no power adders and on pump gas is not that common or else everybody would be doing it... not just the camaro guys. what about the impala guys? i guess they should be doing it too. the camaro and the impala guys both need more power cuz their cars weigh more.
i dunno, it's late and maybe i'm sleepy. see ya,
sonny
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,012
Likes: 5
From: OKC OK
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Hi Ed.
Nice to see you here.
Guys,
I'd be happy to talk to you about what you need to reach your goals and to make sick power, and I can testify cuz I've done it. It's not impossible, or even that difficult... it's just that most people think that it can't be done. It's a factory LT block and one of the amazing things to most people is that I have not used a whole pile of crazy $$ parts. I still have a ton of factory parts in the setup, such as the LT4 intake, filter housing, MAF, the factory computer, factory tranny, rear, radiator, AC, alternator, serpentine belt (haha), etc etc. I actually have over 500hp NA at the wheel now. Feel free to PM me or send me an email if you like.
See ya!
Sonny
Nice to see you here.
Guys,
I'd be happy to talk to you about what you need to reach your goals and to make sick power, and I can testify cuz I've done it. It's not impossible, or even that difficult... it's just that most people think that it can't be done. It's a factory LT block and one of the amazing things to most people is that I have not used a whole pile of crazy $$ parts. I still have a ton of factory parts in the setup, such as the LT4 intake, filter housing, MAF, the factory computer, factory tranny, rear, radiator, AC, alternator, serpentine belt (haha), etc etc. I actually have over 500hp NA at the wheel now. Feel free to PM me or send me an email if you like.
See ya!
Sonny
(Hotrod Mag pictures)Congrats on several things. Topping 500 rwhp, the new speed, and making the mag!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Care to share any secrets? PM maybe? I know what your combo WAS, whats so different now?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
From: Portsmouth VA
hey ed,
i only changed a few things... maybe we should talk anyway... the wife is giving me the hairyeyeball tho, so just PM me and we'll chat.
LT4power,
then i do owe you an apology. especially since you have shared the post for the avatar pics... haha.
see ya!
sonny
i only changed a few things... maybe we should talk anyway... the wife is giving me the hairyeyeball tho, so just PM me and we'll chat.
LT4power,
then i do owe you an apology. especially since you have shared the post for the avatar pics... haha.
see ya!
sonny
Last edited by SonnyinVA; Sep 1, 2007 at 02:38 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,437
Likes: 1
From: Gainesville Fl
ok, i can't... you know more than i do. please tell me more about what i can't do. that is why i built the car the way i did. cuz people said i couldn't, and i thought that i could. and guess what... i did. guess i was right.
btw, i have a LT4 intake... just like i said. the number i have posted is with a 300 shot of laughing gas. i am talking about the same motor, same car... just different timing and without the spray. other than that, same set up.
feel free to watch one of my in-car videos if you like... this is me doing 197.5mph at the Maxton Monster Mile and setting another land speed record... and getting into Hot Rod Magazine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_0xDygXowg
see ya,
sonny
please tell me more about what i can't do. that is why i built the car the way i did. cuz people said i couldn't, and i thought that i could. and guess what... i did. guess i was right. btw, i have a LT4 intake... just like i said. the number i have posted is with a 300 shot of laughing gas. i am talking about the same motor, same car... just different timing and without the spray. other than that, same set up.
feel free to watch one of my in-car videos if you like... this is me doing 197.5mph at the Maxton Monster Mile and setting another land speed record... and getting into Hot Rod Magazine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_0xDygXowg
see ya,
sonny
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 7
From: Metairie Louisiana
Last edited by rickneworleansla; Sep 4, 2007 at 01:23 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 1
From: Portsmouth VA
the motor has parts that will rev to 8000 or above, but the factory computer only lets you tune to 7200. i've only turned it to about 7000 on the dyno, but it makes power all the way up. not sure where the peak is. if i get a aftermarket PCM i can turn it higher and maybe find the peak...? haha. maybe make more power. i figured everybody has 383, and lots of people have 396's. i figured out that the ratios supported that a 409 was safe and doable... so i did it. there is no replacement for displacement. haha.
i don't quite make 600 at the wheel. but it is pretty close. i don't have a dyno sheet that i can scan and post. the NA numbers weren't that important to me, so i didn't focus on them so much. Milkman here on the forum (Jeff Creech) has done all my tuning and stuff down at his shop (CAM, Carolina Auto Masters) in Durham, NC and he is gonna get me some NA dyno sheets soon. Ok, i'm getting the hairyeyeball from my wife cuz we are going to see a movie... got to go.
see ya,
sonny
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 2
From: Kathleen FL
the motor has parts that will rev to 8000 or above, but the factory computer only lets you tune to 7200. i've only turned it to about 7000 on the dyno, but it makes power all the way up. not sure where the peak is. if i get a aftermarket PCM i can turn it higher and maybe find the peak...? haha. maybe make more power. i figured everybody has 383, and lots of people have 396's. i figured out that the ratios supported that a 409 was safe and doable... so i did it. there is no replacement for displacement. haha.
i don't quite make 600 at the wheel. but it is pretty close. i don't have a dyno sheet that i can scan and post. the NA numbers weren't that important to me, so i didn't focus on them so much. Milkman here on the forum (Jeff Creech) has done all my tuning and stuff down at his shop (CAM, Carolina Auto Masters) in Durham, NC and he is gonna get me some NA dyno sheets soon. Ok, i'm getting the hairyeyeball from my wife cuz we are going to see a movie... got to go.
see ya,
sonny
i don't quite make 600 at the wheel. but it is pretty close. i don't have a dyno sheet that i can scan and post. the NA numbers weren't that important to me, so i didn't focus on them so much. Milkman here on the forum (Jeff Creech) has done all my tuning and stuff down at his shop (CAM, Carolina Auto Masters) in Durham, NC and he is gonna get me some NA dyno sheets soon. Ok, i'm getting the hairyeyeball from my wife cuz we are going to see a movie... got to go.
see ya,
sonny
Safety Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 0
From: Houston Texas
ok, i can't... you know more than i do. please tell me more about what i can't do. that is why i built the car the way i did. cuz people said i couldn't, and i thought that i could. and guess what... i did. guess i was right.
btw, i have a LT4 intake... just like i said. the number i have posted is with a 300 shot of laughing gas. i am talking about the same motor, same car... just different timing and without the spray. other than that, same set up.
feel free to watch one of my in-car videos if you like... this is me doing 197.5mph at the Maxton Monster Mile and setting another land speed record... and getting into Hot Rod Magazine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_0xDygXowg
see ya,
sonny
please tell me more about what i can't do. that is why i built the car the way i did. cuz people said i couldn't, and i thought that i could. and guess what... i did. guess i was right. btw, i have a LT4 intake... just like i said. the number i have posted is with a 300 shot of laughing gas. i am talking about the same motor, same car... just different timing and without the spray. other than that, same set up.
feel free to watch one of my in-car videos if you like... this is me doing 197.5mph at the Maxton Monster Mile and setting another land speed record... and getting into Hot Rod Magazine.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y_0xDygXowg
see ya,
sonny
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,858
Likes: 293
From: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Hoover ( Phil's car ) ran 10.64 @ 125.34 MPH NA with a 401ci LT1.
http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/Hoover/perfmod.html
there's other 383ci cars here that run 10's NA, 85vet for one, it's an L98 car though. There's even a couple of 350's that do it.
But how civil do you want it in traffic, and do you need to meet emissions?
http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/Hoover/perfmod.html
there's other 383ci cars here that run 10's NA, 85vet for one, it's an L98 car though. There's even a couple of 350's that do it.
But how civil do you want it in traffic, and do you need to meet emissions?
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 2
From: Kathleen FL
I would rather take a big torquey stroker motor with a slightly lower hp rating over a high strung high revving motor with an ill mannered cough at every stoplight. A motor that stalls every stop light because of a huge cam is the last thing you need for a street motor.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Likes: 2
From: Newtown PA
I would love to build a pump gas, rat motor eating 434 that makes a naturally aspirated 500 rwhp and not have to turn the motor much past 6000 rpms. It sucks that money currently does not allow... 
I'm sure it could be done because of the displacement. So LTx motors would have a slight disadvantage in that department, because there's no such thing as a "factory 400 cubic inch LT1." I've always wondered how big someone can build an LT1, but I be it would be extremely difficult to get it much past 400 c.i.
I'm sure it could be done because of the displacement. So LTx motors would have a slight disadvantage in that department, because there's no such thing as a "factory 400 cubic inch LT1." I've always wondered how big someone can build an LT1, but I be it would be extremely difficult to get it much past 400 c.i. . The mag said the car was very streetable, idled decently without any hint of overheating with the A/C on.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,695
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
the motor has parts that will rev to 8000 or above, but the factory computer only lets you tune to 7200. i've only turned it to about 7000 on the dyno, but it makes power all the way up. not sure where the peak is. if i get a aftermarket PCM i can turn it higher and maybe find the peak...? haha. maybe make more power. i figured everybody has 383, and lots of people have 396's. i figured out that the ratios supported that a 409 was safe and doable... so i did it. there is no replacement for displacement. haha.
i don't quite make 600 at the wheel. but it is pretty close. i don't have a dyno sheet that i can scan and post. the NA numbers weren't that important to me, so i didn't focus on them so much. Milkman here on the forum (Jeff Creech) has done all my tuning and stuff down at his shop (CAM, Carolina Auto Masters) in Durham, NC and he is gonna get me some NA dyno sheets soon. Ok, i'm getting the hairyeyeball from my wife cuz we are going to see a movie... got to go.
see ya,
sonny
i don't quite make 600 at the wheel. but it is pretty close. i don't have a dyno sheet that i can scan and post. the NA numbers weren't that important to me, so i didn't focus on them so much. Milkman here on the forum (Jeff Creech) has done all my tuning and stuff down at his shop (CAM, Carolina Auto Masters) in Durham, NC and he is gonna get me some NA dyno sheets soon. Ok, i'm getting the hairyeyeball from my wife cuz we are going to see a movie... got to go.
see ya,
sonny