hello all,
As some of you might know, My fathers car is nearing completion, i see the light at the end of the tunnel! as much as i want his car to be a screamer, i feel as though my poor little vette deserves to be just as fast for the work i put into both of them so i am adding some nitrous to the mix! so i have a few questions about the ignition components that are avaialable and am looking for some solid experiences with them from the forum.

here are the questions, does the MSD Digital 6 do as much as the Jacob's nitrous mastermind for the nitrous scenario? and can anyone break down what each does in comparison to the other from personal experience if possible, i am going to add some N2O in the near future and will need to know which route to take, I always feel better knowing i have good input from the forum. All i know about nitrous is from books and theory which i completely understand, but i want as all of us do, the safest most efficient setup! look forward to your replies!

Chris

 

Chris the msd you mention is a cd ignition system the mastermind controller allows you to control what rpm the nitrous starts flowing and at what rpm it goes 100% also has built in rev limiter and adjustabale timing retard to prevent detonation when nitrous is flowing. It also will shut nitrous off if fuel pressure drops. If you don't use device like this you should have a window switch or you could wind up like a kid near me did last week he blew the intake manifold off the engine right through the hood. With nitrous you should have the msd ignition also. :flag

 

Save your money on the Nitrous Mastermind. It is complete junk. f you want a Nitrous controller get the NOS brand controllers. They may be a little more $ but they will at least work.

As mentioned above, you will want either the Digital 6 or 6AL ignition to accomodate the Nitrous regarless of whether you use a Nitrous controller.

 

Vette92,
it sounds like it does an awfule lot for the price, have you had some bad experience with this particular product? if so please let me know as it is important i have the most real world accurate info before i plan my purchase. thanks a million!

chris :confused:

 

The nitrous mastermind does everything Black Bart said it does and it shut off the flow of nitrous before rev limiting.(very important) I got a mastermind when they first came out and it did not work. I was sent another one and have been using it for years and it has worked flawlessly. It could definately save you from becoming a statistic. Have fun with the gas--he he he he he he he he he :lol: :lol:

 

I have used progressive controllers in the past and now I just run a MSD Digital 6 with the automatic retard (when the solenoids activate) and I pull 4.5 degrees of timing.

If your gonna use nitrous here are a few items that will help you be safe.

1. MSD Digital 6 or 6AL with timing control or retard box

2. 1 step colder spark plug gapped at .035-.040 (NGK TR-6)

3. Fuel pressure guage or safety switch......or both :D

4. Addittions like a progressive control or window switch are add on item that you can get if you like but they are not mandatory. window switch is not a bad idea


If you have not upgraded your fuel pump I would suggest a Walbro 255lph intank pump, its pretty resonable and very easy to install or you can add some kind of helper inline pump like a T-Rex or NOS pump.


Mike

 

ANTI VENOM,
How was Jacobs on makin good on the first defective unit you received? was the customer service up to par? i spoke with them and they wer every knowledgeable and friendly spent plenty of time nswering what I'm sure they thought was annoying newbie questions, and i like that, shows they care about informing the potential customer, but i would lie some input as to how they treat their paid for customers in situation such as you had.. Thanks a million!

Chris

 

They made good with me. Yes, I had a defective unit, but this was at least 5-6 years ago when they were fairly new. I may have even been the one that screwed the unit up. I mounted mine in the dash under an Alpine head unit in my 91 Vette. I did alot of modifying to the unit. When I went to use it, it did not work. I sent it back and got a new one. I mounted that one in the dash as well and it has been there ever since. I rarely use the progressive feature, but it works well. If I could post pics I would show you what it looks like. I think it is pretty cool and it is right were I need it. I have a digital camera, but my pictures are too big. I'm working on it though.

 

Anti Venom,
I woud love some pictures of it! What kind of N2O system are you running? and what size shot. what style is it, plate or shark nozzle or direct port fogger? have you run into problem with the nitrous popping back through the intake? I saw this happen a few weeks ago with a compucar setup. he was spraying a 150 sot and i think just had it hooked up with no other system for safety, it shredded his intake boot and blew everyhting apart that wasn't metal in the front of the manifold. i don't want to hav to worry about things like that so i am trying t find what setups are the safest. but i would like to add a 100 shot to my setup nd alsowas curious how much the matermind was able to retard timing? i hear the afest way is 2 degrees for every 50 hp increase. thanks again!

chris :cheers:

 

I am running a NOS 150 shot plate style. (wet) I blew a head gasket once and it popped out the intake and blew open my air filter housing. I have been very happy running nitrous. My car is down right now for another blown head gasket. Go figure. I believe the nitrous mastermind wil retard up to 15 degrees. I forgot to look for sure and the pic isn't quite clear enough to tell.

 

ANTI VENOM,
That is a sweet install setup. is wiring that system together a difficult task? looks like alot of control *****! i would have to find a spot to mount it, maybe in the arm rest console some where. hmm, will have to think about it. so head gaskets are a common failing point for nitrous motors or do you have an underlying problem, perhaps the head is not true? just curious, wanna check everything out before i make my final decision! you sure do have a beautiful set up though!

chris :cheers:

 

Chris the head gasket is a thing that goes comming on a NOS motor that is why people with NOS motors put a o-ring in to the block and use copper head gasket, we have had a few do that when they got out of the NOS and back in to it that is why I was wondering what will happend on a car that is a stick shift because there you have to go in and out of it.

Jay

 

I returned a Mastermind when it did not fully funtion. I spoke with Jacob's tech support that after 45 minuts agreed that it was not working properly. They gave me an email address of their top tech guy and he never responded. I cut the box out of my car at the unit and shipped it back to Summit with their options being to give me a refund or send me a working unit. They gave me a refund no questions asked. That shows me that they get a lot of them returned. I know of 3 people using the $500 NOS controller and they are completely satisfied with it. You get what you pay for.

 

I wouldn't say that the mastermind is difficult to wire, but a general knowledge of electrical components helps. The instructions I got where pretty straight forward and complete. I put a msd 6a in at the same time. I use the rev limiter on the mastermind, that's why I didn't buy the 6AL. Ok, now about the head gaskets. The first one was the stock gasket and it popped as soon as I hit the bottle. (It had numerous runs before this) I replaced the gasket with TPIS "thin" gaskets. I didn't check the head or the deck for flatness and I presume that I will find some problem this time around. This last time was my fault. I had my car on the dyno, and I was in a hurry and turned my nitrous start rpm down instead of my 100% on ****. I punched it at 2000 and the nos came on and pop. Bye Bye head gasket. I still drove it 50 miles home. This may sound like alot of problems, but you must know that this is over a period of about 3yrs, I drive the car daily, and I have used a ton of nitrous on the stock bottom end. The car is sitting in the garage with 111,000+. What I'm trying to say, is don't get discouraged. I know people who have had a lot worse than this happen to normally aspirated motors. Have fun with whatever you choose.

 

AntiVenom,
I amnot discouraged, i just finished some work on my car and had the heads trued by .010" and went with the impala "very thin head gasket" so i am confident this would help uspress that issue, as far as the mastermind, i am fairly handy at wiring , so i am not concerned, just was more wondering about the routing and if finding place to come through the firewall was tricky... i have been thinking about mounting the mastermind in my drivers side door pocket, i have a 95, so the arm rest is a flip up box, and i thought that would be an excellent concealed place to put the control *****. there are already boots and wire rins in the door jamb to help conceal everything and pout the take in the spare tire well witth foam insulation fitted snuggly around it. the solenoids i would like to conceal some where and will tackle that when i come to it. but i am alays open to suggestions! thanks you guys, very helpful.

Vette92,
I have had the opportunity to see some of your work first hand, as i installed the corsa exhaust and ram air on your old 92 vert..... nice orange wire for the nitrous setup ;) ... and the fella scott who purchased your car was convinced that you had a CD changer in the back (bottle mtg bolt holes), and thats why the stereo didn't work. I noticed the intake boot had sealant when i removed it for the ram air install, then further noticed the center support had been "manipulated" to accomodate somehting.....,nitrous shark nozzle maybe? very clean looking install i was impressed. and the pictures were also very sharp that you posted. I will try the Mastermind as it does quite a bit, and i have heard alot about it both ways but eventully i have found that their customers have been well taken care of, and received parts that worked fine. electronics are a funny thing, i will do my best to be careful with it!

thanks again everyone!

chris :cheers: