Help with Headers, wont fit!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 804
Likes: 5
From: Fresno CA
On mine, I have and highly recommend the ARP stainless header bolts #400-1109 that have a small 5/16" hex head on them which makes tightening them a whole lot easier. You will still use the studs and spacers for the A/C and Alternator supports and then just start all of the header bolts and alternate tightening them a few turns at time and you'll be fine (and don't forget the anti-seize). Some guys like using the locking bolts like the Stage 8's but I find that the larger hex size makes them more difficult to tighten. Don't forget to drive the car a couple of times and heat cycle the headers and go back and snug all of the header bolts again since the gaskets will compress when they are new.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
Ahh great more money, ARP bolts are ridiculously expensive. Cost me $100 for Cylinder head bolts, looks like its gonna cost me over $50 for these. 
Doesnt matter anyway right now cause I cant get the passenger side header in now. I've removed the dipstick and the starter and its still getting stuck on the coolant sensor, why the **** do they put those stupid flanges going all the way across??? It gets jammed on the black tip of the sensor and the firewall/AC thing and theres no way to make it fit without cutting something.
Whoever said that this was a 30 min job must be completely looney tunes. I've spent 5 hours yesterday and 5 hours today working on it and i'm still not done. This is more difficult than putting cylinder heads on.
Edit: Well i'm off to work, so if nobody comes up with any ideas i'll probably end up cutting part of the flange off the header to make it fit.
Doesnt matter anyway right now cause I cant get the passenger side header in now. I've removed the dipstick and the starter and its still getting stuck on the coolant sensor, why the **** do they put those stupid flanges going all the way across??? It gets jammed on the black tip of the sensor and the firewall/AC thing and theres no way to make it fit without cutting something.
Whoever said that this was a 30 min job must be completely looney tunes. I've spent 5 hours yesterday and 5 hours today working on it and i'm still not done. This is more difficult than putting cylinder heads on.
Edit: Well i'm off to work, so if nobody comes up with any ideas i'll probably end up cutting part of the flange off the header to make it fit.
Last edited by Demonic85; Sep 28, 2007 at 03:20 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
Ahh great more money, ARP bolts are ridiculously expensive. Cost me $100 for Cylinder head bolts, looks like its gonna cost me over $50 for these.
Doesnt matter anyway right now cause I cant get the passenger side header in now. I've removed the dipstick and the starter and its still getting stuck on the coolant sensor, why the **** do they put those stupid flanges going all the way across??? It gets jammed on the black tip of the sensor and the firewall/AC thing and theres no way to make it fit without cutting something.
Whoever said that this was a 30 min job must be completely looney tunes. I've spent 5 hours yesterday and 5 hours today working on it and i'm still not done. This is more difficult than putting cylinder heads on.
Edit: Well i'm off to work, so if nobody comes up with any ideas i'll probably end up cutting part of the flange off the header to make it fit.
Doesnt matter anyway right now cause I cant get the passenger side header in now. I've removed the dipstick and the starter and its still getting stuck on the coolant sensor, why the **** do they put those stupid flanges going all the way across??? It gets jammed on the black tip of the sensor and the firewall/AC thing and theres no way to make it fit without cutting something.
Whoever said that this was a 30 min job must be completely looney tunes. I've spent 5 hours yesterday and 5 hours today working on it and i'm still not done. This is more difficult than putting cylinder heads on.
Edit: Well i'm off to work, so if nobody comes up with any ideas i'll probably end up cutting part of the flange off the header to make it fit.
-- Joe
Race Director
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 14,924
Likes: 9
From: Merritt Ils Fl
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 804
Likes: 5
From: Fresno CA
The ARP stainless bolts are like 30.-35.00 (I've got an extra new set I'll sell you or you can buy them from Summit or Jegs) or you can get them in black oxide (#100-1109 for like 15.00) trust me they are the way to go and with the LPE's I don't think you would be able to get an allen wrench or wobbly driver on the rear of #1 tube or the rear of #5 or #6 either. I really wouldn't start cutting on the flange and hurt the integrity of it. Just take a few extra minutes and drain the coolant and remove the switch from the cylinder head then screw it back in when the header's bolted on..
Last edited by eguyett1985; Sep 28, 2007 at 07:29 PM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
Thanks guys, will check tomorrow to see if any of the local stores have ARP bolts, if not i'll just use regular header bolts from Autozone or something. I would prefer a hex head rather than the allen wrench style, I can see where it would be a pain.
I'm not making this more difficult, i've listened to all of your advice and its helped tremendously especially since I dont have any instructions.
1. I didnt know I had to take off the cross braces.
2. Didnt realize that the standard 9/16" bolts wont work.
3. Had to remove starter and a lot of wiring.
4. I'm using an aftermarket coolant fan switch to work with my Edelbrock heads because the hole was bigger.
5. Couldnt get it around the dipstick.
Once I get a hold of some bolts, shouldnt be too much of a problem finishing it up. I do have a few more questions though. What kind of adhesive or gasket do I need to put the dipstick back in? Should I be worried about any kind of wire or hoses resting against the headers even though they're ceramic coated?
I'm not making this more difficult, i've listened to all of your advice and its helped tremendously especially since I dont have any instructions.
1. I didnt know I had to take off the cross braces.
2. Didnt realize that the standard 9/16" bolts wont work.
3. Had to remove starter and a lot of wiring.
4. I'm using an aftermarket coolant fan switch to work with my Edelbrock heads because the hole was bigger.
5. Couldnt get it around the dipstick.
Once I get a hold of some bolts, shouldnt be too much of a problem finishing it up. I do have a few more questions though. What kind of adhesive or gasket do I need to put the dipstick back in? Should I be worried about any kind of wire or hoses resting against the headers even though they're ceramic coated?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
Thanks guys, will check tomorrow to see if any of the local stores have ARP bolts, if not i'll just use regular header bolts from Autozone or something. I would prefer a hex head rather than the allen wrench style, I can see where it would be a pain.
I'm not making this more difficult, i've listened to all of your advice and its helped tremendously especially since I dont have any instructions.
1. I didnt know I had to take off the cross braces.
2. Didnt realize that the standard 9/16" bolts wont work.
3. Had to remove starter and a lot of wiring.
4. I'm using an aftermarket coolant fan switch to work with my Edelbrock heads because the hole was bigger.
5. Couldnt get it around the dipstick.
Once I get a hold of some bolts, shouldnt be too much of a problem finishing it up. I do have a few more questions though. What kind of adhesive or gasket do I need to put the dipstick back in? Should I be worried about any kind of wire or hoses resting against the headers even though they're ceramic coated?
I'm not making this more difficult, i've listened to all of your advice and its helped tremendously especially since I dont have any instructions.
1. I didnt know I had to take off the cross braces.
2. Didnt realize that the standard 9/16" bolts wont work.
3. Had to remove starter and a lot of wiring.
4. I'm using an aftermarket coolant fan switch to work with my Edelbrock heads because the hole was bigger.
5. Couldnt get it around the dipstick.
Once I get a hold of some bolts, shouldnt be too much of a problem finishing it up. I do have a few more questions though. What kind of adhesive or gasket do I need to put the dipstick back in? Should I be worried about any kind of wire or hoses resting against the headers even though they're ceramic coated?
Heat from the header, over time, can play havoc with the engine operation. It's worse when sitting still at idle because of the reduced airflow.
I don't use any sealant on the oil dip stick. I just drop it in and bolt the upper end to the head. Some guys use Hi-Temp silicone sealant when the tube enters the pan.
I think the bolt you're referring to is a 3/8" bolt but has a 9/16" head. Because of the clearance issue, I use to go with 3/8" bolts that have a 7/16" head. Socket would then clear.
There some on the market that are specifically designed NOT to loosen over time. I've seen them in a few mags; toward the back pages.
Jake
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Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
Well thats fine for the wires, but mine has a factory oil cooler and the hose running into just above the oil filter is touching the header. Granted I havent tightened down the headers yet but it has me worried.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 9,715
Likes: 27
From: Kempner Texas
I guess you'll have to re-route that hose them, unless someone who's installed those headers knows another way.
When I installed TPIS long tube headers on my 86 I had the same problem with the oil cooler hose. I ended up having to use a 90 degree screw-in fitting to make the hose run in a different direction and that gave me the clearance I needed.
I also wrapped the header tube that was running close to the cooler hose with heat wrap and used hose clamps to hold it in place. I also wrapped the oil coolant hose with the same material.
That was the best I could come up with.
Jake
When I installed TPIS long tube headers on my 86 I had the same problem with the oil cooler hose. I ended up having to use a 90 degree screw-in fitting to make the hose run in a different direction and that gave me the clearance I needed.
I also wrapped the header tube that was running close to the cooler hose with heat wrap and used hose clamps to hold it in place. I also wrapped the oil coolant hose with the same material.
That was the best I could come up with.
Jake
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,858
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria CA
Would these work for you? They are only a few dollars at some parts stores.
I use these. ARP is good but not necessary. Use anti-seize on the threads. If not stainless steel, hit the heads with a coat of rustoleum because they will rust.
My hookers came with them in the box. Even with these, I sometimes have to use an open end wrench for a side grip on some of them, because a socket will hit some of the pipes. The head diameter on these are about as small as you can physically go. There really close to the thread diameter itself.
Keep rechecking tightness after a few heat cycles the next several days. After that, they should stay snug.
Use some soft reusable aluminum header gaskets from Fel-Pro or Percy's for a better seal at the head.
I use these. ARP is good but not necessary. Use anti-seize on the threads. If not stainless steel, hit the heads with a coat of rustoleum because they will rust.
My hookers came with them in the box. Even with these, I sometimes have to use an open end wrench for a side grip on some of them, because a socket will hit some of the pipes. The head diameter on these are about as small as you can physically go. There really close to the thread diameter itself.
Keep rechecking tightness after a few heat cycles the next several days. After that, they should stay snug.
Use some soft reusable aluminum header gaskets from Fel-Pro or Percy's for a better seal at the head.
Last edited by 86PACER; Sep 29, 2007 at 06:17 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 7
From: Lahaina Hi
I had to pull the dipstick tube and grind the pass side brace to get the header to go in place.They fit different when they are bolted inplace.If you are trying to hold them inplace and think they won't work, that will not give you a good indication that they will work.The oil cooler connector will have to be changed NAPA usually carries the fittings that is where I got mine.You may have to do like I did and use 2 different bolts.Short bolts on the tight curved pipes and the longer bolts in the front and center.I would keep all the bolts loose until they are all in place and then tighten them up at the same time. I ground down a 7/16 wrench to fit the bolts ,on the open end side of the wrench and used the box where I could to eaderstighten .Using the ARP bolts is east you just need an allen wrench but watch out for that alt make sure the battery is disconnected.I had to fit 1 7/8 h into my 86,good luck.
I also had to heat wrap my header on the pass side so it would not cook the trans .
I also had to heat wrap my header on the pass side so it would not cook the trans .
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 3
From: The Motor City
Don't forget to use the spacers, they may need to have a flat spot ground oh them (dip stick, ac brace, and alt brace). If it's like mine using the 2149 you will also have to fab a new rear alt. brace.
If you have to pull the dip stick, I would put a dab of rtv around the end of the tube to re-seal, if in good shape it will press fit in still.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
The last bolt on the #8 cyl is actually easier if you use a box wrech, put your arm behind the headers and grab it from the inside. On the hookers that hole is slotted, so you get it half way, slide the header in, put the rest of the bolts in and then tighten it.
-- Joe
-- Joe
Racer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 367
Likes: 0
From: Springfield MA
and a second person on top to push and spot couldn't hurt. Have u put in the Passenger side yet? that was my hard side
.but i did use a different brand
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 24,460
Likes: 7
From: sw Ohio
Didnt have much time to work on it today, but I got the bolts Mr. Gasket 915 looks just like the ones above. I had to cut a notch in the flange to make the passenger side one fit. I'm using graphite gaskets cause they didnt have anything better and i'm not using cardboard.
I pulled the dipstick and its in good shape, so no problem there. I made some spacers out of some metal stock tubing and I guess i'll find a bolt to fit on there. I can still use my stock alternator brace. Havent worked on the other side yet for the AC. I'll take a look at the oil cooler thing and see if I can adjust it a bit, I may need a new hose anyway cause it looks
I pulled the dipstick and its in good shape, so no problem there. I made some spacers out of some metal stock tubing and I guess i'll find a bolt to fit on there. I can still use my stock alternator brace. Havent worked on the other side yet for the AC. I'll take a look at the oil cooler thing and see if I can adjust it a bit, I may need a new hose anyway cause it looks
