Thanks, to continue my hijack, if you're going from a stock single to a dual "high flow" does a couple (10-15) CFM per side really matter?

 

On a stock motor a single high flow replacement will do the job.

 

Well I blew my last response. Thinking faster than I type and I left out part of it. I meant to say a dual system with cats is the way I would go. The Random dual system for C4s offers the best flow potential since it's a true dual system. You would have to run oval pipe through the tunnel to even come close to matching a true dual system.

As for two cats versus one on the stock style C4 exhaust, so long as the two cats can flow as good as one, it should not make a difference on paper. In the real world, testing may prove that cat location can have an affect on performance much like x pipe location can.

Would I modify a stock style system to run two cats off the manifolds and put a test pipe where the stock cat was? No, it's not worth the trouble. You are still shoving everything into one pipe, that is the biggest restriction right there.

Are you thinking about running two cats up front and getting rid of the rear one? Or ...?

Trey

 

Look, if you're going from one 2.5 inch single cat, as I am, to a dual 3" cat off a set of long tube headers, does the extra 10 CFM of the Ramdom Tech warrant triple the pricing? I find it hard to believe and have found no evidence otherwise.

I would submit that right off the headers is the right place for the cats, as that's where the hottest spot is. As for the X-pipe, the test involves wax and heat there's no optimal way to mount a "perfect" x-pipe in a C4, that I'm aware of...

 

Where are you getting the 10 cfm figure from? Two 3 in pipes flow way more than 10 CFM more than one 2.5 in pipe. Two 3 in cats flow way more than one 2.5 inch cat. You also must take into account the material inside the cats. Ceramic cats are much cheaper than metal cats and do not flow as well. Are you comparing apples to apples?

If all you are trying to do is bash Random Tech parts because they are expensive, go ahead say it. The free market allows you to decide where you spend your money. If you feel Random's parts are too much, then don't buy them. It really is that simple. If you think Random is some how ripping you off, you couldn't be more wrong. Quality is not cheap. I sale Random parts because I believe in them. They work, they are built very well, and they stand behind their product. I have never not picked up power using their products. I have never not had a satisfied customer that I sold a Random part to. What else do you want?

 

[QUOTE=jsup;1562961835]Look, if you're going from one 2.5 inch single cat, as I am, to a dual 3" cat off a set of long tube headers, does the extra 10 CFM of the Ramdom Tech warrant triple the pricing? I find it hard to believe and have found no evidence otherwise.



You really can't use the extra 10 CFM exhaust flow with you your motor anyway, so the point is mute. If you can pass inspection you should be good to go. The new CATS will probably outlast the car, so what's left?.........Price

 

10 CFM is the difference in flow between a $60 cat and a $180 cat. So the point is that I am trying to figure out why should I spend nearly $400 when I can spend $120. Is that extra 10 CFM Per side warrant the extra $280.

And you have yet to give me an answer other than you THINK the Pypes doesn't have a "metal inside". Which, I submit because there is no proof offered otherwise, that is more MARKETING than FACT until and unless someone proves me different.

If people want to **** money out the window because of slick marketing, that's their problem. Before I do it I want a valid reason.

And comparing apples to apples, let's see.

A stainless steel cat that's guaranteed for 6 years and 50 state legal vs. a stainless steel cat that is well marketed and is 50 state legal and guarantee is not listed.



I didn't say that. I am asking for justification for spending triple the price on Random cat. I am not bashing them I am spending MY money on MY car and if there is valid reason I will go for the extra cash. Other than whining and repeating Random's "we're the best" montra you have provided no such evidence.

I have a history of asking such questions here. In fact I started a thread a while back about the overall price vs. quality. For example, Crane Golds vs. Scorpioin vs. Comp Cam Chrome Molly.

I have asked about Patriot heads vs. AFR vs. Brodix..

I have asked the question on every single part before I put it on my car. What parts will do what I need them to do without pissing money away. To his credit one member here made a complete and accurate example of build quality of cheap cams vs. crane or comp. It was fact filled and experience based. That's all I'm asking.

In my house I have $20,000 worth of B&W speakers. If you know anything about speakers, B&W isn't the cheapest game in town, they are the BEST speaker for the money. Get it?

If it offends you as a vendor that I choose to spend my money WISELY and don't drink the Koolaid of "expensive is always better", and if you are incapable of constructing a coherent sentence of why money should be spent on product X over product Y, I suggest you are in the wrong business. "because I said so" is not enough for me, especially when you have a vested interest in the outcome.

I come here to learn things, from people who know more about this stuff than I do, and have experience with particular parts and combinations. I have purchased from forum vendors in the past. A word of advice, a little less "buy this from me because I carry it" and a little more consultative approach goes a long way.

 

THAT is the point. So why spend $400 when I can spend $100.

Because some idiot in the manufacturer's marketing department said so, and someone else who sells the product gets insulted when I ask them to justify it to me?

See where I'm going?

 

Threads I have started asking the same kinds of questions, and no one got insulted.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...highlight=jsup

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...highlight=jsup
Oh, and by the way, I purchased the MOST EXPENSIVE bracket form a forum member on that thread.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...highlight=jsup

and finally:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1849519

I think anyone who doesn't ask these questions is an idiot.

 

Warranty on Random stuff is life time. Just be sure to fill out the warranty card and send it in.

I've never had a pypes cat in my hands. I said that from the get go so all I could do was let you know what I have found in others supposed hi flow cats. I told you what Random has to offer, from there it is up to you to compare and decide if it is what you are interested in. Where did you get the 10 CFM info? I have never seen a test showing that info.

I'm looking at pypes web site right now. From their own information, the cats are 409 SS. 409 is inexpensive compared to 304. 304 does not rust. 409 does. It has less nickel in it. Nickel does not rust, steel does. Random uses 304 for their cats. Random also does a better job at finishing the cat. That takes time. Time costs money.

Pypes hi flow cat with air tube is a ceramic style cat so is Random's. So that's a direct comparison. However, the Pypes part is universal. Random's is an OEM replacement which means it has the correct flange and is a direct replacement with no modifications necessary to fit.

Pypes universal 3in is ceramic. Metal flows better and costs more. The Random universals I sale and quote are metal.

I can't get pypes catalog to fully load so I can't see prices.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your questions.

 

No problem.

I concede all your points above on the quality of the build, for the sake of argument, not because I've seen them and necessarily agree.

Fact is, for me anyway, none of those things matter. I put less than 1000 miles a year on the car. It is in a temp controlled garage, my exhaust is custom, and the minuscule amount of flow benefit, IN MY CASE, does not seem to be a factor.

At some point in my research I found the Pypes vs. Random were only a couple CFM apart, something like 10-20 CFM. I don't remember the exact number, but it wasn't much.

From where I sit, I'll throw that $300 into really cool valve covers...These should be good for 20 HP.....

 

If we had the money to make sure every part of our c4s was the best out there... we may as well buy a ferarri.

I had random tech cats and I thought they were beautiful. On a stock motor high flow cats will barely gain you anything imo.

 

Price doesn't mean everything.

Every single flow comparison I've seen, the cheapo Magnaflow Carsound (~$50) tested on par with the expensive Random Techs.

Maybe it's made in China, maybe it has less catalyst, maybe it's a POS made of steel-coated plastic. I don't know, but I do know it flows very well, and passes smog just fine on my 85 and has been on there for 4 years without a problem.