oil pump issue
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 810
Likes: 4
From: Austria
oil pump issue
hi all
....theres just a topic going here, oil pump desaster....
i also have a "sealed power" SV, SP pump in my 396, and this oil pump breakage nightmare give me some headache...
should i install a 10552, or a 10555 pump, ( i have the 10555 at home), which one would you recommend me?
10%, or 25% more volume? any downsides? i run a canton road race pan....
thanks for input
....theres just a topic going here, oil pump desaster....
i also have a "sealed power" SV, SP pump in my 396, and this oil pump breakage nightmare give me some headache...
should i install a 10552, or a 10555 pump, ( i have the 10555 at home), which one would you recommend me?
10%, or 25% more volume? any downsides? i run a canton road race pan....
thanks for input
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
....there's just a topic going here, oil pump disaster....
I also have a "Sealed Power" SV, SP pump in my 396, and this oil pump
breakage nightmare give me some headache...
Should I install a 10552, or a 10555 pump, (I have the 10555 at home),
which one would you recommend to me?
10%, or 25% more volume? Any downsides? I run a Canton road race pan....
I also have a "Sealed Power" SV, SP pump in my 396, and this oil pump
breakage nightmare give me some headache...
Should I install a 10552, or a 10555 pump, (I have the 10555 at home),
which one would you recommend to me?
10%, or 25% more volume? Any downsides? I run a Canton road race pan....
about your existing pump.
- How long ago was your pump purchased?
- Street, drag, road racing or other application?
- What maximum operating pressure displays near peak RPM?
- Are solid motor mounts used
know which one you have now?
PICKUPS:
#20-044 Pickup for SV Pumps.
#20-049 Pickup for SV M155 3/4" inlet dia.
#20-074 Pickup for HV Pumps.
#20-079 Pickup for HV M155HV 3/4" inlet dia.
Sealed Power currently lists three pumps#20-044 Pickup for SV Pumps.
#20-049 Pickup for SV M155 3/4" inlet dia.
#20-074 Pickup for HV Pumps.
#20-079 Pickup for HV M155HV 3/4" inlet dia.
224-4146 : 5/8" press-in inlet
224-43469: 3/4" press-in inlet - USE w/NYLON SHAFT GUIDE
224-4146A: 5/8" press-in inlet High Pressure
I am not familiar with Sealed Power's pumps but it appears possible224-43469: 3/4" press-in inlet - USE w/NYLON SHAFT GUIDE
224-4146A: 5/8" press-in inlet High Pressure
that a std volume (SV), std pressure (SP) pump from them might have
either a 5/8" (#224-4146) or 3/4" (#224-43469) inlet. I expect that
both versions are designed for a Press-in Pickup.
Both Melling M-Select pumps you mention are designed for a bolt-on
pickup. The 10555 is for 3/4" BO and the 10552 is for 3/4" BO.
For someone seeking the closest match to the OEM L98 pump, my vote
is that they look at the 10553 (std vol, 5/8" press-in inlet.) This pump
is shipped with the high pressure (pink) spring installed. Although
Melling states that they include the std pressure (yellow) spring in the
box, my 10553 box arrived without the optional std pressure spring. (I
did eventually receive an SP (yellow) spring from Melling through my
vendor.)
Here is a link to the Melling Select Catalog
Here is an updated summary from post #73 in the Melling Potential Disaster thread.
Bolt-on Pickups
- 10552 : 10% Vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover
- 10555 : 25% vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover
- 10552C: 10% Vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover, anti-cav grooves
- 10555C: 25% vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover, anti-cav grooves
Press-in Pickups
- 10553: Std Vol, 5/8" press-in inlet
- 10554: Std Vol, 3/4" press-in inlet
- 10550: 25% Vol, 5/8" press-in inlet
- 10551: 25% vol, 3/4" press-in inlet
- 10990 : 25% vol, 3/4" press-in inlet, shafts extend into cover
- 10990C: 25% vol, 3/4" press-in inlet, shafts extend into cover, anti-cav grooves
Edit: to change 10552/10552C to 3/4" dia inlet from 5/8"- 10552 : 10% Vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover
- 10555 : 25% vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover
- 10552C: 10% Vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover, anti-cav grooves
- 10555C: 25% vol, 3/4" bolt-on inlet, shafts extend into cover, anti-cav grooves
Press-in Pickups
- 10553: Std Vol, 5/8" press-in inlet
- 10554: Std Vol, 3/4" press-in inlet
- 10550: 25% Vol, 5/8" press-in inlet
- 10551: 25% vol, 3/4" press-in inlet
- 10990 : 25% vol, 3/4" press-in inlet, shafts extend into cover
- 10990C: 25% vol, 3/4" press-in inlet, shafts extend into cover, anti-cav grooves
.
Last edited by Slalom4me; Dec 31, 2007 at 05:42 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 810
Likes: 4
From: Austria
hi and thank you, thats a lot of information..
ok, i will try to give all answers...
1) the pump was purchased on 04/29/06, so it´s likely to be the weak casting...
2) i use the pump in my 396 stroker, street driven weekend car, óccassional roadracing
3) i have about 30psi at idle and 60psi at WOT (above 3000rpm) (all hot)
4) no solid motormounts, stock rubber/metal
i run the 224-4146 pump, using a welded on pickup
pickups are no problem, i have always made them myself..
interesting is, that summit lists the 10552, and the 10555 to have an 3/4 inlet...also, the melling catalog does...
now, my question is...
should i use...
MEL-10554 SV, SP HD casting
MEL-10552 HV 10%, SP HD casting
MEL-10555 HV 25%, SP HD casting
or take a look at this http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp
namely their 18750, or 18755 pump
thank you very much
ok, i will try to give all answers...
1) the pump was purchased on 04/29/06, so it´s likely to be the weak casting...
2) i use the pump in my 396 stroker, street driven weekend car, óccassional roadracing
3) i have about 30psi at idle and 60psi at WOT (above 3000rpm) (all hot)
4) no solid motormounts, stock rubber/metal
i run the 224-4146 pump, using a welded on pickup
pickups are no problem, i have always made them myself..
interesting is, that summit lists the 10552, and the 10555 to have an 3/4 inlet...also, the melling catalog does...
now, my question is...
should i use...
MEL-10554 SV, SP HD casting
MEL-10552 HV 10%, SP HD casting
MEL-10555 HV 25%, SP HD casting
or take a look at this http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp
namely their 18750, or 18755 pump
thank you very much
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
in point form to be like the rest of the pump choices. In doing so, I
mistakenly presented the wrong inlet diameters.
Thank you for noticing this.
Originally Posted by corvette90
Now, my question is...
Should I use...
MEL-10554 SV, SP HD casting
MEL-10552 HV 10%, SP HD casting
MEL-10555 HV 25%, SP HD casting
or take a look at this http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp
namely their 18750, or 18755 pump
Thank you very much
Should I use...
MEL-10554 SV, SP HD casting
MEL-10552 HV 10%, SP HD casting
MEL-10555 HV 25%, SP HD casting
or take a look at this http://www.milodon.com/oil-system/oil-pumps.asp
namely their 18750, or 18755 pump
Thank you very much
(SV, SP, 3/4"). Here is what I base that suggestion on.
The current Sealed Power #224-4146 (Std vol, std pressure, 5/8"
inlet) delivers idle/WOT PSI of 30#/60#
The 30# idle PSI with this pump suggests the use of multi-grade oil
that is heavier than 10W-30 (perhaps straight weight 30W (+)?)
Clearances are probably at the middle of OEM tolerance or tighter.
It seems unlikely there are any non-OEM items in the oil circuit
that are bleeding off additional oil volume.
There is 60# WOT PSI, but you do not say what redline you use. So
I will infer a reasonable RPM range based on displacement.
A 396 SBC is usually built with a 3.875" stroke (4.030 x 3.875")
Piston speed with a 3.875" stroke is about 3,600 FPM at 5,600 RPM
(conservative PS for good components), 4,200 FPM at 6,500 RPM
(unconservative PS, IMO.)
By the Rule-of-Thumb, 60# PSI at WOT should suffice for 6,000 RPM.
With a 3.875" stroke, 6,000 is close to 3,900 FPM - this is fastish.
Put another way, it isn't likely many people would turn a street/track
396 more than 5,600 - 6,000 RPM. For this speed, the characteristics
of the existing pump appears to be sufficient, there is just the
matter of the durability of the existing pump which was purchased
after the time that weak casting began to appear in the market.
Therefore, my vote is to consider changing the pump to remove the
possibility of casting breakage. Since the existing pump seems to
be suited to the needs of the application, select a replacement with
similar SV/SP characteristics to the current one.
ie: #10554 (SV, SP, 3/4")
My vote is that in practice, the 10552 (+10% Vol) would not be inlet) delivers idle/WOT PSI of 30#/60#
The 30# idle PSI with this pump suggests the use of multi-grade oil
that is heavier than 10W-30 (perhaps straight weight 30W (+)?)
Clearances are probably at the middle of OEM tolerance or tighter.
It seems unlikely there are any non-OEM items in the oil circuit
that are bleeding off additional oil volume.
There is 60# WOT PSI, but you do not say what redline you use. So
I will infer a reasonable RPM range based on displacement.
A 396 SBC is usually built with a 3.875" stroke (4.030 x 3.875")
Piston speed with a 3.875" stroke is about 3,600 FPM at 5,600 RPM
(conservative PS for good components), 4,200 FPM at 6,500 RPM
(unconservative PS, IMO.)
By the Rule-of-Thumb, 60# PSI at WOT should suffice for 6,000 RPM.
With a 3.875" stroke, 6,000 is close to 3,900 FPM - this is fastish.
Put another way, it isn't likely many people would turn a street/track
396 more than 5,600 - 6,000 RPM. For this speed, the characteristics
of the existing pump appears to be sufficient, there is just the
matter of the durability of the existing pump which was purchased
after the time that weak casting began to appear in the market.
Therefore, my vote is to consider changing the pump to remove the
possibility of casting breakage. Since the existing pump seems to
be suited to the needs of the application, select a replacement with
similar SV/SP characteristics to the current one.
ie: #10554 (SV, SP, 3/4")
significantly different to the 10554. In fact, on the 10552C anti-cav
version, I feel the +10% vol helps compensate for any vol decrease
resulting from the internal anti-cavitation grooves.
I feel the 10555 (+25%) version is unnecessary, given the available info.
I haven't looked at the link to the Milodon suggestions at this time.
Milodon may be reselling Melling pumps as some other vendors do. I
may be able to offer a more informed opinion later.
If you decide to use the Bolt-on style, be sure to review the comments
about the depth of the pick-up bolt holes, about compression of the
pickup-to-pump gasket causing leakage and about use of safety wire or
other methods to positively ensure retention of the pick-up to the pump.
Check whether the HP (pink) or SP (yellow) spring is installed before
mounting a Melling pump.
.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
casting pattern as the Melling.
Some research about the Sealed Power 224-4146 pump on your part
might be in order before removing a part that may not be a problem.
.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 810
Likes: 4
From: Austria
Hi and thank you
Oops. In updating the info from post #73, I listed the 10552 & 10554
in point form to be like the rest of the pump choices. In doing so, I
mistakenly presented the wrong inlet diameters.
Thank you for noticing this.
thank you also, that you didn´t take this as an offence (it havent been one)
sorry, that i didnt mention redline, but, you are right, it will spin no more than 6000rpm...
the sealed power pump-and many other pumps are made by melling, and they are just sold under different brand names....
the milodon pump seems to be a real different animal, and it seems, its exclusevly casted for milodon..just check the link out, there are some nice pics, according to them, its a beefy pump...
based on your analyse, the 10554 is the pump i will get, seems to be absolutely sufficient, and also have the HD casting
thank you very much, happy new year!!
Oops. In updating the info from post #73, I listed the 10552 & 10554
in point form to be like the rest of the pump choices. In doing so, I
mistakenly presented the wrong inlet diameters.
Thank you for noticing this.
thank you also, that you didn´t take this as an offence (it havent been one)
sorry, that i didnt mention redline, but, you are right, it will spin no more than 6000rpm...
the sealed power pump-and many other pumps are made by melling, and they are just sold under different brand names....
the milodon pump seems to be a real different animal, and it seems, its exclusevly casted for milodon..just check the link out, there are some nice pics, according to them, its a beefy pump...
based on your analyse, the 10554 is the pump i will get, seems to be absolutely sufficient, and also have the HD casting
thank you very much, happy new year!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
What is the idle RPM? What weight oil is used in the engine for the
30#/60# values? Mineral or synthetic?
Speculative statements were made about the Sealed Power pumps
being based on Melling castings in the earlier threads but I do not recall
anyone demonstrating first-hand knowledge of this and I do not know
myself. When it comes to disassembling a good engine it seems prudent
to be as certain as possible that there may be a reason to do so ...
I looked at the Milodon link. crashgordon mentioned Milodon in post
#131 and there is follow-up discussion in #134-#137. I do not recall
anyone posting about ordering a Milodon.
Is there a sleeve in the bolt hole of the casting on the right?
.
30#/60# values? Mineral or synthetic?
Speculative statements were made about the Sealed Power pumps
being based on Melling castings in the earlier threads but I do not recall
anyone demonstrating first-hand knowledge of this and I do not know
myself. When it comes to disassembling a good engine it seems prudent
to be as certain as possible that there may be a reason to do so ...
I looked at the Milodon link. crashgordon mentioned Milodon in post
#131 and there is follow-up discussion in #134-#137. I do not recall
anyone posting about ordering a Milodon.
Is there a sleeve in the bolt hole of the casting on the right?
.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 810
Likes: 4
From: Austria
hi
idle is around 900rpm, i use dino 10W-40 oil..
anyways...i will rather pull my pan, than risk an engine damage..its not that much work, only thing is, i hope it will seal again...(but why not?)
honestly, i dont see a sleeve in the pic above...
idle is around 900rpm, i use dino 10W-40 oil..
anyways...i will rather pull my pan, than risk an engine damage..its not that much work, only thing is, i hope it will seal again...(but why not?)
honestly, i dont see a sleeve in the pic above...
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 810
Likes: 4
From: Austria
Hey Slalom4me...
your question melling/sealed power is just answered...
take a look at the "potential desaster" thread, the last post from Calderone, and look at the picture with the box on on it.....
it says "new generation" M-55HV, and nearby "SP 224-4143"
when you searcht he SP number through summit, guess what comes up.....so, melling and SP uses the same casting.....
your question melling/sealed power is just answered...
take a look at the "potential desaster" thread, the last post from Calderone, and look at the picture with the box on on it.....
it says "new generation" M-55HV, and nearby "SP 224-4143"
when you searcht he SP number through summit, guess what comes up.....so, melling and SP uses the same casting.....
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 810
Likes: 4
From: Austria
also, maybe take a look at this.....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...558337&page=10
my last posting on page 10
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...558337&page=10
my last posting on page 10
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,866
Likes: 60
From: Hellinois
Finalist 2020 C4 of the Year - Modified
hi all
....theres just a topic going here, oil pump desaster....
i also have a "sealed power" SV, SP pump in my 396, and this oil pump breakage nightmare give me some headache...
should i install a 10552, or a 10555 pump, ( i have the 10555 at home), which one would you recommend me?
10%, or 25% more volume? any downsides? i run a canton road race pan....
thanks for input
....theres just a topic going here, oil pump desaster....
i also have a "sealed power" SV, SP pump in my 396, and this oil pump breakage nightmare give me some headache...
should i install a 10552, or a 10555 pump, ( i have the 10555 at home), which one would you recommend me?
10%, or 25% more volume? any downsides? i run a canton road race pan....
thanks for input
