Okay, it sounds like I know my plan of attack here as far as diagnosing the problem, but what did I do wrong when rebuilding the motor? I followed the Haynes manual to the T, with the exception of using a plastigage.
I had the crank turned, and used the proper sized bearings.
I torqued them all to spec, with engine assembly lube. I preoiled the motor.
Any other tips?
I am going to try to go the "leave the motor in the car route" first of all. If that doesn't work that's fine-- I have other transportation and I will pull the motor out... Again.
:mad
:D that's why it's a hobby and not a proffession, right? :smash: :smash:

 

Ok, a few other possible answers here:

1. The block has a cracked oil passage.
2. The oil pump is defective ( especially if rebuilt/remanufactured ).
3. The cam bearings are shot.
4. An oil valley plug is whacked out of place.

The low oil pressure can be caused by any of these, and will make bearings noisey...and will damage the bearings. Therefore, if any of the above is responsible...you can put new bearings in all day and still have the same problem. :cry

Just something to think about.

 

where would this oil valley plug be?
The cam bearings were brand new, as was the cam.
I'll go ahead and replace the oil pump, although it was brand new when I put it in.

 

Jake, I hope I didn't offend you. Your method could very well do the trick. Personally, I want to remove the engine for a close through inspection and clean up after my work. You've done it his way, and I don't doubt that it was successful. It certainly would save the grief of pulling the engine back out.

jopod, I know of seven oil galley plugs. There are three at each end of the block just above the camshaft. If any of the rear three were mising you would have a mess all over your garage floor. They would leak out of the bellhousing area. If one of the front three were leaking, the oil would drain back into the pan, unnoticed. The seventh is accessed after the rear main bearing cap is removed. It is recessed up inside a hole forward of the left side main cap bolt. You recently mentioned the new cam bearings. Was the block hot tanked or "boiled out"? Maybe the machine shop removed this plug and forgot to replace it or mention it to you. I really don't think it is a galley plug. I think a missing plug would cause too massive of an internal leak for you to get the cold oil pressure that your getting. I wouldn't be to quick to throw away a new oil pump. Check it. Clean it. But don't just throw parts at an unknown problem. Please, find the cause.

According to your 3:25 post, you have been diligent and consciencious. But somewhere, somehow, you've missed something. The crank was ground .010. Was it .010 - .010? Could it maybe have been .010 - .020? As you can see, I'm clutching at straws here. I just want to help you consider all of the possibilities.

 

IF I were to stand up here and tell you I know for a fact that I put the correct bearings in, I would be lying to you.
What I do know is this-- we (my brother and I) had the crank turned to .010 under stock. As I understand that, it means the crank was ground down 1/10,000ths of stock. The bearings we had were Clevite 77 and they were marked as CB-663 P-10 seemed to hold the crank in very well, and when we spun the crankshaft it seemed smooth and effortless.
The oil pan is coming down tomorrow, if there are obvious signs of damage I'll post what I see and take some digital pics of anything that may be useful.

 

Hey jopod. Not to be nit-picky, but .010" is 10/1000ths (ten thousandths)
of an inch. Anyway, I'll drop by asap and help you sort it out.

Dan

 

Hey! :-D
I was just making sure everyone was paying attention. :jester

 

You the man, Dan.
Muchas Gracias for your help here. Hey-- you never told me what kind of beer you drink.

 

MGD. See you soon - thanks.

 

I suggest that you plastigage all the bearings - rods and mains - to see what your clearances are now. That should show which rod is knocking as well. When you find it, regardless of what the cause was, replace those bearings. Knocking for a bearing is an unnatural load, and it will be almost impossible to get the right clearance on it again. Guess how I know that. And I suggest all new rod bolts if you are going to run any high rpm runs, street or strip. Tightening rod bolts actually stretches them a bit, and they may not be able to be properly tightened again. This doesn't happen very often, but better safe...
Hope you come out of this ok - and cheap! :yesnod:

 

jopod,

Like I said, I am just clutching at straws, here. From what I've read in your posts, it sounds to me like a bearing clearence problem. I wasn't there to observe and am unaware of details that may not occure to you to mention. You would have to write a 500 page blow by blow diary to include all the nit picky details of the job. I'm not suggesting that you do that. I've thought about this, a lot, and will continue to do so. I keep coming back to excessive bearing clearences. I could very well be wrong. So far, that's my best shot. Good luck, and please, keep us posted.

 

[QUOTE]Jake, I hope I didn't offend you. Your method could very well do the trick. Personally, I want to remove the engine for a close through inspection and clean up after my work. You've done it his way, and I don't doubt that it was successful. It certainly would save the grief of pulling the engine back out.

Naw, I'm not offended; didn't mean to come off as if I was. Sorry.

I just was trying to explain my reasoning. We're all just here to try to help.

Jake

 

Jake,

10-4

 

3 questions
1) How can I determine for sure that the crank was turned .010? The machine shop said it was, but I'm not sure.
2) What qualifies as "extensive scoring?"
3) How do I re-drill the oil holes if they don't line up?
Got the pan down now, just examining the components.
Great tip, BTW on the bump starter!
Joe

 

jopod,

1) Beg, borrow, steal, or rent a micrometer. Measure the diameter of the crankshaft journals. Even IF you could see them, I wouldn't rely on any machine shop stampings. at this point. Checking the main journals, with the crank in the block, is an iffy proposition, at best.

2) With a fresh crankshaft, any markings should raise questions. If you can catch your finger nail anywhere in the machined surface, I would take corrective action.

3) Almost self explainitary. With out being disrespectful, exactly, what do you mean by, "how"? With a drill?

 

Oops. I made the mistake to responding to the notification by this board instead of logging onto the board to post my response. So it won't get posted here (hate to have to type it again; you guys know how long-winded I am).

Anyway, I copy/pasted the msg to you via email and added a couple of other things to look for while you're "down under".

Keep us posted on what you find.

Jake

 

Bummer. I posted something and it didn't show up.
Dan C (new forum member and all around cool guy) came by today and confirmed my worst fears-- the crank needs to be turned. Grrrr.
Okay, so back to square one here.
There are my options
1) Send it to auction with "blown motor" on the sales sheet. I'll get $4000 for it @ auction.
2) Pull the motor out and start all over again.
3) Put new bearings in the mains and rods and hope for the best.

The breakdown was most likely caused by leftover metal shavings in the crank oil journals. I cleaned the outside of the crank thoroughly before putting it back in, but I did not do the inside of the holes...
:mad :mad :mad

So anyway, looks like I am going to go for option 2.
Good news is I should be picking up my 40th anniv car this afternoon. :D
Oh good -- more motors to fix.

 

Thanks for the compliment Joe. Let me know how I can help you when you get ready to put it back together (and I'll still take one of those beers!). Glad to know you're going to keep it - it's a nice looking car.

BTW, I'll be out of town 12/5 - 12/10 (enjoying the warm weather in Puerto Rico!).

Later,
Dan

 

jopod,

Damn!!! I was afraid of something like that. If you go with option 2, PLEASE pull all of the oil galley plugs and thoroughly scrub that block, inside and out, with HOT soap and water. I forgot to mention in an earlier post, the plugs on the outside of the block adjacent to the oil filter mount. Get some long handled brushes, and clean, clean, clean. Do the cylinder bores in a similar manner. Get the bores so that you can run a clean white cloth through them without the cloth showing ANY dirt. While it's apart clean everything else too. An overhaul is like a paint job or so many other projects, in that the success of the finished product is highly dependent on the preparation. "Cleanliness is next to godliness" Good luck. Eventially, the satisfaction of a job well done, will be a source of great pride. Even if it IS a pain in the butt in the meantime. Just MY $.02.

 

Build a budget stroker 383 :cool:

It might be cheaper than you think.

But you must be very meticulous with these motors. And at a minimum use plastigage to check the clearances. I think you learned some valuable info from this episode, and with some basic tools and knowledge you will be successful next time around.