dtorc4

I think I am going to wait on replacing/rebuilding the whole engine until next year. In the meantime, I have $1000 that is burning a hole in my pocket. What are some good heads to replace the cast iron heads I have now? :cheers:

Marcho Polo

AFR 190's with a 64cc chamber size would work great for a 1985 motor.

chasenme

Save the money and put it toward next years rebuild/crate motor.


Dennis

dtorc4

Dennis,

I plan to use whatever heads I purchase on the new/rebuilt motor. Sorry I didn't clarify that. Another thing I thought of, will I need to have a chip burned with the new heads? Also, where can I purchase the AFR heads? I have heard a lot of good things about them and I know a lot of forum members are using them. Does anybody have any for sale? :cheers:


[Modified by dtorc4, 6:04 PM 12/5/2001]

mean8t

Unfortunately the AFR 190's run $1200 so that may be alittle out of your price range. What I would do is get a set of Scoggin-Dickey prepped Vortec heads (pn SD8060A, ~$600) and and thier base. Those heads will accept up to .525" lift. Those two mods alone are worth 300hp, and with a properly built engine you wouldn't have a problem hitting 425hp with no additional headwork.
They engine they talk about in this link has the original TB and programming
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1460&pid=13740

Josh

TIMSPEED

It all depends on what kind of intake you're going to go with. If you're going to keep your stock style TPI intake, and maybe get larger runners, or a ported plenum or ported baseplate, my recommendation for heads would be Trick Flow Twisted Wedge 23º heads for $975. They'll flow enough to handle the TPI style intake. If you're going to go with maybe a SuperRam or Mini-Ram, then I might suggest looking into the AFR 190's or possibly a set of Dart Pro 1's(200cc intake runner/64cc chamber).

dtorc4

I like the idea of the vortec heads w/ intake while using my stock TPI system... Hmmm.... I just got off the phone w/ Scoggin Dickey, and they said this setup will not require any mods/machining w/ stock plenum/runners. The only thing I have against it is the intake is $400. For that price, I could keep the stock intake and get better heads. What do you guys think of World Sportsman II? Will they work w/ my stock setup? :confused: :cheers:

GRX

I got the AFR190's; great heads.

dtorc4

Would World S/R Torquer heads work w/ stock setup???? I found a brand new set w/ swirl polished stainless valves and 3 angle valve job for $565. If they will work w/ my setup, I might go ahead and get them this weekend!!

mean8t

If you buy only the heads you will not get the gain that you expect until you replace some of the other components of the TPI. You are going to have to replace the intake base eventually so if you haven't already then buying the Vortec version is not a big dea, it is not any more expensive than a big mouth and it is cheaper than the Accel/Lingenfelter version. Look down the road you will have to replace the base eventually, and the money that you save down the road you could if you wanted to spend on head work. The Vortec heads flow in the upper 230's already so they won't need much attention anyway.l
The Vortec heads are much better than the World S/R Torquer don't waste your money, if your not going to go with the AFR's go with the Vortec's.
Josh


[Modified by mean8t, 4:43 PM 12/5/2001]


[Modified by mean8t, 4:44 PM 12/5/2001]

dtorc4

Thanks for the reply mean8t. I am leaning in that direction, assuming that the intake is equivalent to the flow of say a LPE unit. I am just not very experienced when it comes to head(S) :D I would still like to have some sort of list of which heads will work w/ the stock intake, runners, plenum, etc. before I fork out $800 - $1000.

If anybody has that kind of info, I would GREATLY appreciate a reply. Thank you all for your help so far. :cheers:

I forgot about my other question - Will I need a new chip when I install the heads? :confused:


[Modified by dtorc4, 10:57 PM 12/5/2001]

darkcarn85

Does anyone know if the S-d intake with the vortec heads can accomodate the stock '85 EGR? We have pretty tough emissions testing. Thanks.

dtorc4

They said that it is completely compatible w/ the stock TPI setup. Give them a call to make sure though. I am planning on getting rid of my EGR crap. :cheers:

0ski_dwn_it

Hi guys,
First off let me say that it sounds like you don't have a real good game plan as to what you are going to try to do. With that being said, and that needs to be established, you need to get the intake, heads, and cam to all match otherwise you will realize the full potential ofone of the before mentioned items. These upgrades with heads ect will make an improvement over stock ones, but with out the total package you are wasting your time. I am not trying in any way to discourage you upgrading your car. By all mean go for it. But I will tell you these activities cost money. You can see what I am doing in my sig, which is basically a proven setup. These are the things you need to find and shoot for. If you are going to spend 1K then spend it on something you will be able to use in one of these setups, even if you can't afford the whole shooting match quite yet. When you can, then buy the rest. I just hate to see people waste their money on stuff that will not work in the future with a proven setup.
Just as a pointer when looking at heads, do not just look at .500 and XXXcfm. You have to understand the dynamics of the valves and look at not only .500, but also .400, .300, and .200. When you compare all the before mentioned lifts, since your valve will most likey travel through all those ranges, and spend the least amount of time at .500. You can add all those up and you will see a great deal of differences between heads. Too many people just look at .500 or .600 lift and say that two heads are the same, big mistake. Take two heads and add up all the CFM for all lifts and compare totals. You will understand what I am trying to tell you. And lastly, the 190 AFR's I just bought ran me ~$1800.00 There are hidden costs like center bolt valves covers, sensor holes, milling to keep stock CC or your compression will go way down, and lastly valve upgrades if the cam you plan on running has a lift greater than .550. You see why I say to have a game plan. You don't want to spend 1200 bucks, install them ~30hrs, realize your compression is 8.5-1 and you car is a turd or you install a cam in 6 months and stress the valve train = rip it all apart and spend another 2000 to make it right again. I think you get were I am coming from. The forum is full of proven setups and I too would be more than willing to help you out. I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud or trying to be a know it all (becaues I am not) I'm just trying to give you a bit of forwarnaing. Its up to you to heed the advise or travel the path noone else has traveled. Good luck and I hope all works out well for you.

dtorc4

Thank you for the input Jesse. Right now, I am open to pretty much any suggestion. I do in fact plan on doing a performance rebuild or a crate engine in January/February. I was thinking of doing it now, but I decided I would go ahead and get some heads for the time being, as I will have more money for just the engine in a couple of months. I was planning on getting rid of the heads anyway, but knowing me, I cannot save money worth a darn, and would blow what I have now, and not have it when I need it. That's why I want to go ahead and get heads now, then use them on the motor I get in the future. My plans include (but not limited to): 383 or 400 (if I can find a block), LPE plenum/runners (intake also if I don't use the vortec setup), ~9.5-1 to 10.0-1 compression, still don't know about cam (perhaps LPE), roller rockers (probably w/ the heads I get now), 24 lb accel injectors, appropriately programmed chip. Nothing too wild, just really good DAILY DRIVEN power. I plan on keeping stock gears, as I drive an 2 hours on the highway to work roundtrip each day; maybe put in a 1500-1800 stall TC.

I am very open to suggestions. I am within a pretty tight budget. I have a friend of mine who can assemble an engine for me inexpensively (he does it for a living, not a backyard mechanic), so labor will be reduced if I do a rebuild. If I go crate, I am looking at $2000-$2500 for the short block setup, incl cam. Superram, runners, and 52mm TB will go on later. As you can see, this is going to be a build up over a little time. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. :cheers:

Beach Bum

I recommend you keep saving and then get the AFR 190 heads.... they are really a versatile head that makes power every single time... you can't go wrong with them. In any regards, whatever your future modifications are your motor with those heads on would be able to grow with you...

good luck
Beach

dtorc4

What size combustion chanber do stock L98 iron heads have, what compression (8.5-1, right?), and what CC would you recommend on new heads? :cheers:

mean8t

Ski_dwn_it,
You are exactly right with what you said about the mid lift flow numbers. Zora Arkus-Duntov once said that the most important flow numbers are at about 65%-68% of max lift, which would put you in the .300"to .400" lift range. The Vortec head has consistantly scored better than most heads. The one head that has out scored the Vortec consistently is the AFR 190, but for four times the price it doesn't beat it that bad. The Vortec flow numbers are:
I/E
.100" 70/48
.200" 139/101
.300" 190/129
.400" 227/140
.500" 239/147
Comparatively a set of LT4 heads flows
I/E
.100 68/53
.200 134/98
.300 184/125
.400 218/143
.500 241/156

I don't have any test data on the AFR 190's if someone does maybe they could post it. Dtorc4 I hope this helps alittle.
Josh


[Modified by mean8t, 7:55 PM 12/5/2001]

dtorc4

yes Josh, this helps tremendously. Where can I find info, prices, etc. on AFR 190's?

Josh, just out of curiosity, have you ever run the vortecs, or are you perhaps a dealer for them? I am just asking b/c of your apparent enthrallment about these heads. Nothing against ya though :D :cheers:

Beach Bum

As a good comparison, the following are the approxmiate #'s AFR 190's flow out of the box:

..............Intake.........Exhaust
.200......129...............108
.300......195...............156
.400......240...............178
.500......260...............190
.550......262...............194
.600......262...............194
.700......262...............194

The above are great flowing #'s for an out of the box set of heads. I know these are the approxmiate #'s.... I've seen similar #'s from different sources. In comparison, my ported Dart 2 heads flow very closely to the above #'s.... however, I had to have mine ported to reach those flow #'s.

The above heads out of the box obviously flow enough to easily support a 400+ HP motor... In the future as your modifications dictate, additional porting can reap flow #'s in the 290/220 area @ .550 lift with solid gains in the low lift #'s as well... however you're opening up your intake runner to approxmiately 210cc at this point, which might be a hair large for a TPI type 350 motor.... but great for a 383+ motor.

AFR 190's really are a great versatile head.... they'll make great power out of the box on a 350-383.... really respond to additional porting to the point they can be utilized on a big cube motor or high revving motor as well. They're affordable and proven... you can't go wrong.

There's a post in the Aftermarket engine section titled "What is the AFR 190 limits"..... you might want to have a gander at the post... it has some interesting information in it.

cheers,
Beach Bum