What would be a good heads/cam setup for a ZZ4 engine? This is for my '88 C4 w/ 4+3. I also plan on swapping to an LT1 intake. Just thinking if I should go with the longblock for $3300 or just get the shortblock for $2500 and add some nice heads and a cam. How much power can I expect from a zz4 with a nice cam, nice heads, long tubes with tru duals?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

a ZZ4 is I beam "X" or "PM" rods. (aka stock), cast crank (stock),
-16cc dish pistons (stock), and 113 heads (stock) with better valve springs. Oh and the "zz4 cam" (that belongs in the trash).

Since you want to use different heads (like some trickflow's for around $1100), a better cam (like the comp 503), why don't you just yank your stock motor out, send it over to the local perf machine shop and have it done up? The block shouldn't cost much more than $600 to get tanked, machined, bored, etc. TRW 2256 flat tops are about $260 for a set. Some nice summit Ibeam rods for about $250, or some H beams for about $350. A Steel crank for around $600, or just another cast one for $110 if your goal is <400hp.

Since your '88 is TPI, and I assume your going to stick with the TPI setup (bad assumption?) I'd suggest a 503 cam, or even a hair smaller (like the LPE219). Long tube headers are for big motors with tons of duration and overlap. (long tube tuned headers tuned for scavaging on overlap). Neither of which are good for your TPI setup's powerband, so I'd recommend some hooker or tpis shorty headers.

350-380hp I'd think, pending final compression ratio, and cam choice.
Enough to spank and LT1, and keep up with the LS1's. Low 400s
if you ditch the TPI setup for a miniram, right tune, right compression, 503 cam minimum.

-- Joe

 

I took the below from the Superior Chevy website. The cam is not very big, but you do get some good parts in a 10 to 1 pump gas motor.




Imagine an aluminum head small block that makes 355 horsepower. What if it had a steel roller camshaft, four bolt main block, undercut rolled fillet crankshaft, high silicon pistons and strong PM connecting rods? We imagined it, and then engineered, developed, tested and built it. The ZZ4 is the evolution of our popular ZZ series of small blocks that power thousands of street rods, hot street cars, circle track racers and drag racers. With over 400 ft.lbs. of torque, the ZZ4 is the best way to put an aluminum head, roller cam, high performance small block between your favorite fenders. The aluminum angle plug cylinder heads have screw in rocker studs, 1.94" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves and 58cc combustion chambers that yield a crisp and responsive 10 to 1 compression ratio. Also included are our lightweight valve spring retainers that weigh half as much as our previous design. The valve seats are radiused and we’ve included valve stem seals to help keep the oil where it belongs. To compliment the cylinder head design, we’ve incorporated a steel roller tappet camshaft with .474" intake and .510" exhaust valve lift. The combination makes 355 horsepower at 5250 rpm and has that great sounding muscle car idle, with just enough lope to let people know that this is no station wagon engine. Also included with the ZZ4 is an HEI distributor with an ignition timing advance curve developed for performance, a dual plane aluminum intake manifold that accepts your spread bore or square bore carburetor, an 8" high-RPM torsional damper, 12.75" auto trans flex plate and cast iron water pump. The ZZ4 is currently our most popular crate engine, and you can see why. With a long history of successes in circle track and drag racing as well as street rods and other performance applications, the ZZ4 may just be the bullet for your next project. The ZZ4 is not intended for marine use, and should only be used in 1975 and earlier pre-emissions street vehicles or any year off road vehicles.



Features

H I G H L I G H T S
• HP: 355 @ 5250 rpm
• TQ: 405 @ 3500 rpm
• Late-style block with one-piece
rear main seal
• Four-bolt main caps
• Performance aluminum cylinder heads
with center-bolt valve covers
• Hydraulic roller camshaft
• 10:1 compression ratio
• HEI distributor
• Stamped steel valve covers with
center-style bolts
• Cast iron normal-rotation water pump
• 8-inch damper
• 12.75-inch automatic transmission flexplate

 

The ZZ4 engine is a nice setup. Most that go that route do so because of the nationwide GM warranty that comes with it - you don't get that from a local machine shop.

It's a great motor for street/strip but not for all-out racing. It's got a forged steel crank with 4-bolt mains and the powdered metal rods (good for ~ 500hp or 6500rpm sustained). The pistons are hypers not really suitable to nos or super/turbocharging.

The heads are OK but will hold you back some with the LT1 intake and a decent cam.

That said, I saw a test of a ZZ4 shortblock, a Hotcam, and a set of fastburn heads (carb fed) that pulled 430hp at the crank. You should be able to do similar with the LT1 intake and the right heads & cam.

 

Perhaps. Most guys I know go to the machine shop. I don't think I've ever even met a guy with a ZZ4, but the warranty sure is appealing.

-- Joe

 

If memory serves, the ZZ-4 has a steel crankshaft.
The warrantee will be negated if the motor is dissassembled, and heads and cam are swapped.

 

What about the intake + carb?

-- Joe

 

I think that will fly. A friend bought a zz3 years ago and installed it in his toyota pick up truck. When he spun a bearing, I was shocked that they replaced it under warrantee , and did the swap in the dealership. Even labor was covered
Not sure if they bent the rules for a good ole local boy, or if the warrantee was that complete.

 

No wonder GM is going broke!

 

Since you plan to go to an LT1/MR intake, a head in the 180-190cc range should be good (TFS, AFR, Dart Pro 1, etc.) with a cam like the CC305 or LT4 Hotcam or TPiS' ZZ-409.

 

If you get the partial engine (shortblock), I think it carries the same warranty, leaving your free to choose your heads/cam.

 

Shortblock would be the way I would go. I think the ZZ4 partial engine uses LT1 style pistons. You should be able to get LT4 + type power very easily using the LT intake. That should make a good solid budget build with no wasted time or parts. You could also use one of the LE head/cam packages.

 

i have a zz4 short block, TPIS zz-9x roller cam, with 1.6r. rockers on trickflow heads, mini-ram, all port matched, hooker ceramic coated headers true duell exhaust, ect the car flies, im swiching to the zf-6 because the OD on the 4+3, but yah, my car runs drives excellent,

 

My vote would be for the short block, either new or local machine shop. As was said, the ZZ4 has #113 heads (L98) and they're easily bested by aftermarket products.


anesthes...you were doing pretty good until it came to headers. You've received some poor info on the subject, and you're passing it along. Tuned Headers will make an improvement on most any Internal Combustion Engine... from RC cars to go-karts- and certainly on any SB Chevy. L98s have shorty headers stock. Shorty headers; useing the right diameter tubes, will make decent HP at high RPM levels. They will just be way down on power; compared to long tubes, from the bottom-end on up.

 

Pull your motor and build it into a 383 or bigger, or opt for the crate 383 shortblock, I think it is. Aftermarket heads AFR or Canfields, custom ordered cam from supporting tuner on the forum, or call Comp Cams direct. Dont spend all that money and stay with a 350.

 

I disagree, and so does every book I own on the subject. The most important thing is the tube diameter. The tuned length does absolutely nothing unless the cam has enough overlap to produce the scavaging effect to begin with. If we're talking a cam with 300+ degrees of advertised duration, then I agree with you 100%.. But he's not putting anything near that in his TPI setup.

Bigger is not always better. I know it's common on here for people to dive into long tuber headers, but the fbody folks have been running BOTH for many years, on a billion different combos and so far nobody has made any more power with long tubes unless it was with a huge cam.

-- Joe

 

I'll stick with my posted statement

 

Fair enough.


-- Joe

 

There is a place called Pace Performance that sell a ZZ4 w/o the intake, waterpump, front balancer for about $3200.00 shipped. The short block is $2200.00 shipped.

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp...&ProdID=194848




The ZZ4 is internally balanced, while the ZZ383 is externally balanced, which would make it difficult to install a flywheel, correct?

 

Depends on how you use the term. the ZZ4 uses a 1pc rear main which has a counterweight on the flywheel. Most people agree that is externally balanced.

An older SBC with a 2 pc rear has the weight cast into the crank, making it internall balanced most would agree.

The 400 is another demon all together. And 383 combinations have been done both ways. It doesn't *really* matter unless the user is dead set on a specific flywheel (i.e, dual mass ZF6) but than again, it takes like an hourto mill off the weight on the black of the flywheel and balance it to spec.

-- Joe