Timing setting for SC
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 18
From: Henderson NV
Timing setting for SC
I have been emailing back and forth with teh previous owner of the vehicle I purchased, and he mentioned his tuner recomended setting the timing at 35-38 degrees total timing, I am confused with that high number, I have it set at the factory setting of 6degrees BTDC, so what does the total timing setting relate too.
Is this something I can do in my garage or does the total timing need to be calculated by a tuner and a computer.
Thanx, sorry for sounding stupid
Procedures to calculate the total timing would be great, in the meantime I am doing some searches.
Thanx Folks
I see a Advanced timing light is needed, is this true for easiest setting of total timing.
Is this something I can do in my garage or does the total timing need to be calculated by a tuner and a computer.
Thanx, sorry for sounding stupid
Procedures to calculate the total timing would be great, in the meantime I am doing some searches.
Thanx Folks
I see a Advanced timing light is needed, is this true for easiest setting of total timing.
Last edited by Pizzano; Mar 12, 2008 at 02:14 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,719
Likes: 59
From: Fremont Oh
With my LT 1 I'm running a total of about 22-24 at 5000 rpms... running 35-38 might be "ok" for a normally aspirated engine but you will be in SERIOUS trouble running that much advance under boost...
If you have a BTM I would be setting it to at least 1.5 degrees per pound of boost until you can log and see where your knock is at, you do not want more than 3 degees of knock... Do you have a WB O2 as well?
If you are still getting the engine around , it is imperitive to get some logging software incrementally make a few partial throttle runs until you see where your fuel and timing and knock numbers are...
I hope this helps
MO
If you have a BTM I would be setting it to at least 1.5 degrees per pound of boost until you can log and see where your knock is at, you do not want more than 3 degees of knock... Do you have a WB O2 as well?
If you are still getting the engine around , it is imperitive to get some logging software incrementally make a few partial throttle runs until you see where your fuel and timing and knock numbers are...
I hope this helps
MO
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 18
From: Henderson NV
No Boost Timing Module, also it presently has a Narrow Band guage, I want to change to a wide band, but being recently unemployed and disabled I am trying to get this vehicle tunned as far as the timing goes to the best I can with what I have for the least amount of out of pocket $$$.(if you know what I mean)
I planned on changing to a WB set up when I changed out the exhaust so another O2 bung could be welded into the headers at that time.
I am stuck with what I have for now, so whatever procedure I need to do to set the total timing up close for this setup, that is what I will have to do, I just am not aware of setting up the total or how to compute it , all I need to do is be schooled on what procedures to take, and then I can go from there.
I appreciate your input Mo, and any other input
Thanx
I planned on changing to a WB set up when I changed out the exhaust so another O2 bung could be welded into the headers at that time.
I am stuck with what I have for now, so whatever procedure I need to do to set the total timing up close for this setup, that is what I will have to do, I just am not aware of setting up the total or how to compute it , all I need to do is be schooled on what procedures to take, and then I can go from there.
I appreciate your input Mo, and any other input
Thanx
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 18
From: Henderson NV
Thanx Mo, I will look into getting a chip burned when I change out the exhaust, it would be premature to do so before hand IMHO,.
But does someone have a in depth description on how to set teh total timing in the meantime for a 1988 TPI, SC'd application.
thanx
But does someone have a in depth description on how to set teh total timing in the meantime for a 1988 TPI, SC'd application.
thanx
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,719
Likes: 59
From: Fremont Oh
It has been a while, but there should be a brown or a black wire with a white tracer on it (ESC circuit), that you disconnect it should be n the drivers side of the engine.
Disconect it, setup your timing light and the stock timing is like 6 degrees btdc just loosen the bolt and rotate the distributor...
Once you have it set turn off the engine and reconnect the ESCwire.
Mo
Disconect it, setup your timing light and the stock timing is like 6 degrees btdc just loosen the bolt and rotate the distributor...
Once you have it set turn off the engine and reconnect the ESCwire.
Mo
Last edited by Mo_Bandy; Mar 15, 2008 at 04:38 AM.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 99
From: Seattle WA
Mo's describing how to set the base (or initial) timing. The rest is done in the chip. If the base is set at 6 degrees and the chip has a maximum advance of 32 degrees, then your total would be 38 degrees. The chip takes the place of the old mechanical/centrifugal and vacuum advances that used to be in the distributor.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 18
From: Henderson NV
As stated in prior post, I have allready set the base timing at 6 degrees BTDC. I resolved that issue.
With that said, so then the factory prom has a max advance programmed into it, is there a way to determine what that maximum advance is for a 1988 factory prom.
From what I am being told by the previous mechanic of this vehicle is that the total timing should be between 35-38 degrees, so I guess I would not know that setting unless I knew what the factory prom is maxed out to correct.
Thanx folks
With that said, so then the factory prom has a max advance programmed into it, is there a way to determine what that maximum advance is for a 1988 factory prom.
From what I am being told by the previous mechanic of this vehicle is that the total timing should be between 35-38 degrees, so I guess I would not know that setting unless I knew what the factory prom is maxed out to correct.
Thanx folks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 99
From: Seattle WA
It's not quite that simple. I don't have a factory '88 chip handy, but an '87 should be close. In the '87 max advance can be as high as 48 degrees (for 54 degrees total timing) under light loads. Under heavy loads, it's about 36 degrees (for 42 total). This would kill a supercharged engine pretty quickly.
You probably don't have the factory chip still in there. The two easiest ways to verify what you have are to pull the chip and read it (or have it read by someone who does tuning) or datalog while driving and observe the advance that's being used.
You probably don't have the factory chip still in there. The two easiest ways to verify what you have are to pull the chip and read it (or have it read by someone who does tuning) or datalog while driving and observe the advance that's being used.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Riverside CA
If you had a scanner, you could check to see how much timing your chip is trying to put in.
A better way is to check it with a timing light to varify actual timing.
If you run the engine RPM up to 3500+ (in nutral, no load) your timing should be at maximum advance. Check it there with a ligh. Actual timing is most important.
Also:
There is a timing retard module that will pull timing back out if it hears any detonation. I think it can pull up to 12 degrees.
You will want to remember that this is a variable as well.
These modules can pull timing from hearing wierd noises that are not actualy detonation. Valve train noises from changing a cam or rockers can have an effect. Most common is exaust noises from adding headers. The module should be located on the block, passenger side, and is faily close to the exaust. Some people move them or have them disabled in the tune.
The reason this is important is because your tuner may make you a chip with 26 degrees total timing and then the module may pull back out 10 degrees. Your ride will not run well on 16 degrees.
Either way, it is much better to have not enough timing than too much
Good luck
Chad
A better way is to check it with a timing light to varify actual timing.
If you run the engine RPM up to 3500+ (in nutral, no load) your timing should be at maximum advance. Check it there with a ligh. Actual timing is most important.
Also:
There is a timing retard module that will pull timing back out if it hears any detonation. I think it can pull up to 12 degrees.
You will want to remember that this is a variable as well.
These modules can pull timing from hearing wierd noises that are not actualy detonation. Valve train noises from changing a cam or rockers can have an effect. Most common is exaust noises from adding headers. The module should be located on the block, passenger side, and is faily close to the exaust. Some people move them or have them disabled in the tune.
The reason this is important is because your tuner may make you a chip with 26 degrees total timing and then the module may pull back out 10 degrees. Your ride will not run well on 16 degrees.
Either way, it is much better to have not enough timing than too much
Good luck
Chad
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 18
From: Henderson NV
If you had a scanner, you could check to see how much timing your chip is trying to put in.
A better way is to check it with a timing light to varify actual timing.
If you run the engine RPM up to 3500+ (in nutral, no load) your timing should be at maximum advance. Check it there with a ligh. Actual timing is most important.
Also:
There is a timing retard module that will pull timing back out if it hears any detonation. I think it can pull up to 12 degrees.
You will want to remember that this is a variable as well.
These modules can pull timing from hearing wierd noises that are not actualy detonation. Valve train noises from changing a cam or rockers can have an effect. Most common is exaust noises from adding headers. The module should be located on the block, passenger side, and is faily close to the exaust. Some people move them or have them disabled in the tune.
The reason this is important is because your tuner may make you a chip with 26 degrees total timing and then the module may pull back out 10 degrees. Your ride will not run well on 16 degrees.
Either way, it is much better to have not enough timing than too much
Good luck
Chad
A better way is to check it with a timing light to varify actual timing.
If you run the engine RPM up to 3500+ (in nutral, no load) your timing should be at maximum advance. Check it there with a ligh. Actual timing is most important.
Also:
There is a timing retard module that will pull timing back out if it hears any detonation. I think it can pull up to 12 degrees.
You will want to remember that this is a variable as well.
These modules can pull timing from hearing wierd noises that are not actualy detonation. Valve train noises from changing a cam or rockers can have an effect. Most common is exaust noises from adding headers. The module should be located on the block, passenger side, and is faily close to the exaust. Some people move them or have them disabled in the tune.
The reason this is important is because your tuner may make you a chip with 26 degrees total timing and then the module may pull back out 10 degrees. Your ride will not run well on 16 degrees.
Either way, it is much better to have not enough timing than too much
Good luck
Chad
Is that 3500 rpm with the tan wire thingy disconnected as I were setting the base timing.
Also is there actually number on the damper that goes that high as far as degrees or do I have to measure and mark it on the damper according to what size damper is on.
Also I was told it is the stock module on the ECM, he said he tried a Hypertech but it ran crappy with it so he installed the original one back, I suppose the Hyper one probably wasnt for a SC'd setup,I guess I'll send my kids in there so they can get the ECM out from under the dash. Homee dont bend that way no more
Thanx for all the help folks, I really appreciate the Help
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 0
From: Spring Grove Illinois
Is that 3500 rpm with the tan wire thingy disconnected as I were setting the base timing.
Also is there actually number on the damper that goes that high as far as degrees or do I have to measure and mark it on the damper according to what size damper is on.
Thanx for all the help folks, I really appreciate the Help
Also is there actually number on the damper that goes that high as far as degrees or do I have to measure and mark it on the damper according to what size damper is on.
Thanx for all the help folks, I really appreciate the Help
There is no number on the damper timing mark indicator.You must use a timing light with a adjustable advance to see where the Total Advance is...
Although I don't have the ECU control stuff on my car,Setting timing is the same ..In your case though a chip would be in order if the total timing is out of wack.....If not set right you could be looking for help on how to replace your head gaskets
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 18
From: Henderson NV
Allright , thanx folks , great information, I will get a timing light with advance feature, and I guess it would make sense to disconect the knock sensor during the timing procedure correct, so no retard from any noises will effect the setting.
Thanx
Thanx
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Riverside CA
i don't think that you can simply un-plug the knock module.
That also goes for any sensor on your car. The ECM is looking for thoes sensor readings all the time.
i just gave you the knock sensor info so you may consider it as you learn about you project.
Too much timing will destroy a SC/ Turbo/ or Nos enginge.
It can happen in seconds or less
To set-up the timing you will need a correct chip specificly tuned for YOUR car and combination.
Or, you need to have a boost timing retard module istalled to work with your ignition system. A BTM will retard timing progressivly as your boost increasas. A module will leave your timing at factory settings when you are cruzing arround.
There is realy no point in setting you timing untill you get a chip or a BTM.
That also goes for any sensor on your car. The ECM is looking for thoes sensor readings all the time.
i just gave you the knock sensor info so you may consider it as you learn about you project.
Too much timing will destroy a SC/ Turbo/ or Nos enginge.
It can happen in seconds or less
To set-up the timing you will need a correct chip specificly tuned for YOUR car and combination.
Or, you need to have a boost timing retard module istalled to work with your ignition system. A BTM will retard timing progressivly as your boost increasas. A module will leave your timing at factory settings when you are cruzing arround.
There is realy no point in setting you timing untill you get a chip or a BTM.