Quad Driver, ECM question
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 28
From: FL
I know that the FSM says this, but my 1st code was a 28 and it did set the service light and that was the only code.
Test the fan relays by jumping the A and B terminal and turning the ignition key to the ON position, do not start.
If the fans come on, then the ECM is fine and you have bad fan relays or another sensor is bad. Remember that quad drivers controllers control multiple sensors.
Test the fan relays by jumping the A and B terminal and turning the ignition key to the ON position, do not start.
If the fans come on, then the ECM is fine and you have bad fan relays or another sensor is bad. Remember that quad drivers controllers control multiple sensors.
For the record we are talking about the output side of the ECM, sensors supply information to the input side of the ECM, there are no sensors "controlled" by the quad driver module, the QDM controls the various relays and solenoids based on input from sensors such as coolant temp, A/C pressure etc., none of those sensors can cause the codes in question.
RoperC4 you keep asking what to do, I stand by my recommendation to first diagnose any codes using the FSM, use the simplified diagnostic suggestions offered with caution.
If you can't find someone you trust to fix your car use the funds you have available to buy the FSM and do your own trouble shooting.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
As I posted every Quad fault is related to a relay. If the relay dead shorts that is what takes out the ECM. If it is open HOPEFULLY it can be fixed and the fault reset.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: Bartonville Illinois
Hello,
If you don't pull the codes, you could be searching for a long time.
I agree completely with someone earlier. The drivers are really just power transistors. Their control is no doubt sensor input to ECM. The transistor itself can also fail, "on" or "off" .
If the car stinks of gas or running real rich (flooded)maybe a sensor is telling ECM that the car is lean and ECM wants to pour on the gas. All these sensors on these cars seem to be the weak link in keeping these cars running. The ECM seems to adjust to failing sensors pretty well.
You could probably have several a little out of wack and the car still runs pretty good. I tested several ECT sensors at the same time in boiling water and they all checked different and none of them read what the manual said they would at a rolling boil. Genuine AC parts, made in Mexico.
I have also seen one of those canisters with a bunch of raw gas in it.
It wasn't full but, it had more than just vapor in there. Could cause rich mix when it kicked on.
If you don't pull the codes, you could be searching for a long time.
I agree completely with someone earlier. The drivers are really just power transistors. Their control is no doubt sensor input to ECM. The transistor itself can also fail, "on" or "off" .
If the car stinks of gas or running real rich (flooded)maybe a sensor is telling ECM that the car is lean and ECM wants to pour on the gas. All these sensors on these cars seem to be the weak link in keeping these cars running. The ECM seems to adjust to failing sensors pretty well.
You could probably have several a little out of wack and the car still runs pretty good. I tested several ECT sensors at the same time in boiling water and they all checked different and none of them read what the manual said they would at a rolling boil. Genuine AC parts, made in Mexico.
I have also seen one of those canisters with a bunch of raw gas in it.
It wasn't full but, it had more than just vapor in there. Could cause rich mix when it kicked on.
Last edited by RACER 1993; Mar 31, 2008 at 10:25 PM. Reason: made a mistake
Racer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: Bartonville Illinois
RoperC4,
Do you have the shop manuals? Do you have a DVM? It would help to know what tools you have available to you.
By the way your ECM should be same as mine. They are getting pretty rare. If its same as mine heres a little help if you end up searching for one. For a couple years were also used in Firebirds, Camaros, Impala SS and Maybe Cadillacs with the LT1. They would just have a different prom. They also have three different part numbers now.
They are numbered three ways, origional part number, new part number after end of manufacture and remanufactured part number.
Do you have the shop manuals? Do you have a DVM? It would help to know what tools you have available to you.
By the way your ECM should be same as mine. They are getting pretty rare. If its same as mine heres a little help if you end up searching for one. For a couple years were also used in Firebirds, Camaros, Impala SS and Maybe Cadillacs with the LT1. They would just have a different prom. They also have three different part numbers now.
They are numbered three ways, origional part number, new part number after end of manufacture and remanufactured part number.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,629
Likes: 28
From: FL
One concern I have is that much of the focus seems to be on parts, (relays, sensors, ECU) that mindset completely ignores the wiring which connects it all, and is equally important.
Certainly parts do go bad, but so do wiring and connectors, wiring repairs cost little compared to replacement parts.
Following the procedures in the book will check both wiring and components, minimizing unnecessary parts replacement. You will also acquire valuable knowledge about the function of your vehicle, gain confidence in your ability and be better able to repair the next concern rather than supporting a "mechanic" who is better qualified to take orders at a fast food restaurant.
Certainly parts do go bad, but so do wiring and connectors, wiring repairs cost little compared to replacement parts.
Following the procedures in the book will check both wiring and components, minimizing unnecessary parts replacement. You will also acquire valuable knowledge about the function of your vehicle, gain confidence in your ability and be better able to repair the next concern rather than supporting a "mechanic" who is better qualified to take orders at a fast food restaurant.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
From: McKinney Tx
Ok guys, I have more information and need you more than ever!
Codes pulled (used snap on scanner):
28 QUAD DRIVER MODULE FAULT
43 ESC MODULE OR SENSOR CIRCUIT PROBLEM
53 SYSTEM VOLTAGE TOO HIGH
The only one I could troubleshoot at all was 43, I checked the knock sensor like it said by holding the car at 2k rpm and had a friend knock on the block by the sensor, the sensor noticed the knock but the motor did not retard and lower the rpms. (maybe this is because of the multi spark system I have?)
BUT, the Snap on unit used to pull these codes said "SOME VEHICLES MAY NEED VSS TO SEND SIGNAL TO ESC".
Codes pulled (used snap on scanner):
28 QUAD DRIVER MODULE FAULT
43 ESC MODULE OR SENSOR CIRCUIT PROBLEM
53 SYSTEM VOLTAGE TOO HIGH
The only one I could troubleshoot at all was 43, I checked the knock sensor like it said by holding the car at 2k rpm and had a friend knock on the block by the sensor, the sensor noticed the knock but the motor did not retard and lower the rpms. (maybe this is because of the multi spark system I have?)
BUT, the Snap on unit used to pull these codes said "SOME VEHICLES MAY NEED VSS TO SEND SIGNAL TO ESC".
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Does your AC and coolant fans work right or at all? Describe your " Multi" spark system. What does your voltmeter on the dash read at idle and while running?
Last edited by Redeasysport; Apr 3, 2008 at 12:08 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
At this point it is leaning toward the ECM as far as I can tell but you really need to go through the FSM diagnostics on your codes to confirm it. I don't get the code 53 though another one that needs to be troubleshot. It may have been the reason if it spiked the ECM. If all your relays for the code 28 check out ( they sound OK if everything is working) it will tell you the ECM is the problem. Wish I had better news for you........Good Luck keep us posted.
By the way your starting issue may or may not have anything to do with the quad driver code. It sounds more like a fuel delivery issue( too much) but first things first a bad ECM can cause a whole host of issues.
By the way your starting issue may or may not have anything to do with the quad driver code. It sounds more like a fuel delivery issue( too much) but first things first a bad ECM can cause a whole host of issues.
Last edited by Redeasysport; Apr 3, 2008 at 10:04 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
They are getting hard to find. You used to be able to get a reman at the parts store. Advance can get them if you have the OEM number. I have read the quality of remans could be suspect. Don't just swap out till you go through the diagnostics you could cook another one.
Did you reset the codes and try pulling them again. Sometimes you can get a blip and reset and they do not come back. It is best to do this to ensure it is a true code.
Just an add on here is what the Advance web site says about the reman
"Features & Benefits:
Original quad drivers that are not short-protected are removed and replaced with short-protected quad drivers. - Corrects an O.E. design flaw and allows vehicle owner to replace a solenoid instead of the entire ECM the next time a short occurs."
Did you reset the codes and try pulling them again. Sometimes you can get a blip and reset and they do not come back. It is best to do this to ensure it is a true code.
Just an add on here is what the Advance web site says about the reman
"Features & Benefits:
Original quad drivers that are not short-protected are removed and replaced with short-protected quad drivers. - Corrects an O.E. design flaw and allows vehicle owner to replace a solenoid instead of the entire ECM the next time a short occurs."
Last edited by Redeasysport; Apr 3, 2008 at 11:42 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Actually they put an improved quad driver in it when they send it off for rebuild but remember the quad driver runs relays not sensors. If one of the relays has an intermittant short you will be chasing your tail. YOU NEED TO DO THE DIAGNOSTICS FIRST.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
From: Sebastian Florida
St. Jude Donor '06
No, the ECM gets its info from sensors, from that it knows what to send to the relays. A bad relay does not take out your ecm, but a sensor with to high or little voltage will. You are wrong, as usual about them improving the ecm quad driver. Certain companies like SIA have addressed this problem and fixed it. But, If you have a sensor sending back a high voltage signal or evan a low voltage signal, over time it will take out your ecm. Use the FSM and do not listen to people who are guessing.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,789
Likes: 8
From: Myrtle Beach SC
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
No, the ECM gets its info from sensors, from that it knows what to send to the relays. A bad relay does not take out your ecm, but a sensor with to high or little voltage will. You are wrong, as usual about them improving the ecm quad driver. Certain companies like SIA have addressed this problem and fixed it. But, If you have a sensor sending back a high voltage signal or evan a low voltage signal, over time it will take out your ecm. Use the FSM and do not listen to people who are guessing.
So you know where and what happens when you take the ECM to Advance and they send it out? Listen we are talking about the Quad Driver section of the ECM not the sensor recieving part. It provides a voltage to a relay ( or several) if you short it out it will ruin the driver PERIOD. When the driver toasts the ECM is shot PERIOD. Read what I copied from Advance about them putting a protected quad driver that will not short out. Sorry YOU are wrongBy the way did you get your engine to bog on turns with a full tank of gas like you said it did with less than 1/4?
Last edited by Redeasysport; Apr 5, 2008 at 12:02 AM.