Hi a guy with an ubber wagon near me is thinking of putting AIR injection on his motor.

Basicly gonna link a scubba tank up with a regulator to drop the 200 bar or so pressure to 9 psi ish and then pipe it to his manifold, he works in a scubba shop so there is no re-charge cost, and even if it where it would only be a small one.

His reckoning is this will work like a turbo in a bottle with a free intercooler-

Basicly thanks to the jules-thompson effect when you lower the pressure of a gas the temperature of it also reduces - so going from 200 bar to less than 1 bar will give a nice cooling effect as well as producing an intake charge.

The theory sounds good and interesting to me as it could basicly be an on demand turbo in a bottle - but would it work?

Any one in the know on this kind of thing??

Phil.

 

Bad idea ...

Droping pressure from 200 bar to 1 bar increases volume 200 times.

A 2 gallon tank will give you 400 gallons of 1 bar. that is less than 20 cubic feet.

At 200 hp an engine uses about 300 CFM, a tank will last 15 seconds at that power level.

I don't think you can empty a tank like that in 15 seconds.

A pressure regulator that can handle 300 CFM from 200 bar ... not cheap.

And if he just adds a pipe to the manifold, he won't get any boost because it would vent out backwards thru the air filter.

 

Nice one - so when he farts his "intake charge" to the atmosphere instead of into the engine my lill ole C4 can just roar off as I laugh at him then

 

Yes!

 

Wouldn't it provide cold air to the engine? Obviously not for very long, but it sounds like the guy won't be out much money to try it. Might be good for a small but noticeable boost.

 

Nos is baiscly cold air as it expandes yes?

You want to re-engineer a system that has been proven and billions of dollars of sombody elses mony has been spent to make it as good as it is today.

I think there is probably many reasons they used Nos instead of air.

 

Seems like the most difficult way to make HP. The limited capacity of te bottle means you'd have to have 2 or 3 bottles in order to make a pass. That's a really big pressure drop too; suspect icing may become an issue. Never was a big fan of racing with high pressure bottles in the car (3000 psi in those tanks, correct?). Will keep an eye out on the Darwin awards to see how your friend is making out with his project.
CT

 

No reproduction on that person would make it far in life.The speed that the air could come out of the valve would freez the tank valve,Using a regulator at 150 psi intermeadiate presure will only produce a lean mixture and if it came even close to working you would burn up the engine.If you add to the air the fuel will have to be increased also.
Simple physics.If you add NOS to the motor you will have to add something else FUEL with the added oxygen something has to give or you will make a lean condition and boom!!.If you think turbo then you think bigger fuel pump and more fuel with the boost or boom .You get the same result eather way.

 

This has been discussed a few times. First of all you would need a dual throttle body setup. The first one being an on/off setup so it can draw air though under normal driving and close when you inject air behind it into the engine.

The major drawback is the fact that you need some HUGE tanks to do this because you are supplying all the air of the engine at WOT with boost.

NOW HERE'S A THOUGHT......

What would happen if you just injected pure oxygen instead of compressed air. You would have to inject TONS more fuel for the same volume of oxygen compared to air, but you wouldn't have to boost the motor.

Also when you store O2 in a bottle, doesn't it become liquid because of the pressure? I'm not sure but it would allow for much more capacity in the storage tank if this were true.

This obviously wouldn't be good for a street car, but I wonder if a drag car would beneifit from this. I'm guessing its against all NHRA rules and what not, but an interesting though. Also very expensive to keep filling O2 tanks.

But is it theoretically possible? And if not, why not?

 

Laws of Physics
Boyals Law
Charles Law
Presure and volume heat and presure
O2 will stay as a gas,at certian temps and presure once again Laws of Physics .

 

Another reason pure oxygen won't work is because it's an oxidizer at room temperature. The reason nitrous oxide (NOT NOS, NOS is brand, not the chemical. The chemical is N20!) doesn't melt intake valves, pistons, and other components is because it doesn't add oxygen to the mixture until ~575 degrees F. Then, the chemical breaks apart and lends oxygen to an already burning mixture. I would think that with pure oxygen controlling the burn would be a huge problem.

I would think that by adding straight O2, you'd burn the same amount of fuel; just tremendously faster. I would bet less than 10 degrees of crank rotation fast. I don't think there is an engine out there that could withstand that kind of abuse.

 

Boom!

 

awesome post, agree completely.

AND THANKS FOR THE BOLD PART!!

man that annoys the hell out of me

"I got naaawwwwzzz for my car!"

I actually saw a ricer once that had a sticker that said

NOS by Edelbrock.

I almost died, I'll find the pic

 

LOL... I get that all the time when people come into my shop, "Hey, how much to put naawwwz on my car?" or "How much does the "nitro" cost?"

Now the "NOS by Edelbrock" is technically correct (NOS=Nitrous Oxide System), but I get your drift...

 

i can say that i have heard of people putting a box in front of there t/b but after there filter then filling it with dry ice before a race and it helping the negative charge but that was a first on air in a can theory.