what retainers and locks?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 1
From: Marietta Pa
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14
what retainers and locks?
I have a set of AFR heads with Manley 2.08/1.6 valves. I also have the Comp 987 dual valve springs. I was wondering what locks and retainers you guys recommend?
I have to find the the valve size and groove count. Since he used the old retainers and locks, I would assume the valves are 11/32"? Probably a one groove?
What would you guys recommend? 10 degree or 7 degree? Chromoly steel, steel, or hardened steel?
Also, would using hardened steel locks with steel guideplates cause any problems? Is there any mix and match issues?
The reason for the change: have Titanium retainers and guideplates, but don't need them as I'm putting a superram on it and don't plan on shifting higher than 6200RPMS.
I have to find the the valve size and groove count. Since he used the old retainers and locks, I would assume the valves are 11/32"? Probably a one groove?
What would you guys recommend? 10 degree or 7 degree? Chromoly steel, steel, or hardened steel?
Also, would using hardened steel locks with steel guideplates cause any problems? Is there any mix and match issues?
The reason for the change: have Titanium retainers and guideplates, but don't need them as I'm putting a superram on it and don't plan on shifting higher than 6200RPMS.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 1
From: Marietta Pa
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14
That's what I was thinking, hence ditching the Ti. So you're saying 10 degree locks are better, since you said they are good for high spring pressures?
Anyone recommend a good retainer for the comp 987 dual valve springs? And the other questions about the mix and matching, and pros/cons of 7 vs. 10 degree locks?
Anyone recommend a good retainer for the comp 987 dual valve springs? And the other questions about the mix and matching, and pros/cons of 7 vs. 10 degree locks?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 1
From: Marietta Pa
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Anyone else?
I talked to Racekrafters, and they did not recommend changing the retainers.
They said the titanium's will outlast the heads, and he doesn't think the switch is worth it or that titanium would be more prone to failure.
Anyone else care to comment? I don't want to use titanium and drop a valve after 10k miles, however if it won't make a difference, I might as well save the time and money switching them out.
I talked to Racekrafters, and they did not recommend changing the retainers.
They said the titanium's will outlast the heads, and he doesn't think the switch is worth it or that titanium would be more prone to failure.
Anyone else care to comment? I don't want to use titanium and drop a valve after 10k miles, however if it won't make a difference, I might as well save the time and money switching them out.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio Texas
In any case, I know:
the recommended retainers are CC #740;
the recommended shims are CC 4754;
and you SHOULD be able to use the stock locks.....but I'm not betting the mortgage on that
.Good luck!
KW
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 1
From: Marietta Pa
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Well the question was more towards whether or not I should switch to steel retianers, or if I should just use the titanium's that are on now.
I heard conflicting opinions on titanium retainers on street cars. I don't want to drop a valve after 2 years.
I heard conflicting opinions on titanium retainers on street cars. I don't want to drop a valve after 2 years.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio Texas
Again......
But for the $$$$ (and costs alone) I wouldn't bother with Ti retainers on a street car.
I'd sell 'em and get some steel retainers.
Also, Comp has a new steel spring retainer that's supposed to weigh only a few grams more than Ti.
FWIW.
KW
At the risk of sounding like a SOB.....why not just call Comp Cams????
I'd sell 'em and get some steel retainers.
Also, Comp has a new steel spring retainer that's supposed to weigh only a few grams more than Ti.
FWIW.
KW
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,107
Likes: 171
From: Dublin CA
If you are going to switch out the retainers yourself it may be worth the effort. But I agree with your machine shop, why bother.
I have been researching springs and retainers. I will be going to the Comp cam 987 duel springs and use Comp's 740-16 retainers. They are set up for 10 degree locks. You should be able to take the locks off your current valves and switch.
If you are not lifting your valves very high or reving the motor very high you should be able to use steel retainers(which is what the 740-16 are). I will be using the 987 on my 180 AFR heads with a Lingfelter 74211 cam with 1.6 RR. This will lift the intake to .534 and the exhaust to .567. With the SuperRam and a base ZZ4 short block I really don't expect to spin above 5500+ for an few runs at the track.
I have been researching springs and retainers. I will be going to the Comp cam 987 duel springs and use Comp's 740-16 retainers. They are set up for 10 degree locks. You should be able to take the locks off your current valves and switch.
If you are not lifting your valves very high or reving the motor very high you should be able to use steel retainers(which is what the 740-16 are). I will be using the 987 on my 180 AFR heads with a Lingfelter 74211 cam with 1.6 RR. This will lift the intake to .534 and the exhaust to .567. With the SuperRam and a base ZZ4 short block I really don't expect to spin above 5500+ for an few runs at the track.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 8,683
Likes: 6
From: Phoenix AZ
Anyone else?
I talked to Racekrafters, and they did not recommend changing the retainers.
They said the titanium's will outlast the heads, and he doesn't think the switch is worth it or that titanium would be more prone to failure.
Anyone else care to comment? I don't want to use titanium and drop a valve after 10k miles, however if it won't make a difference, I might as well save the time and money switching them out.
I talked to Racekrafters, and they did not recommend changing the retainers.
They said the titanium's will outlast the heads, and he doesn't think the switch is worth it or that titanium would be more prone to failure.
Anyone else care to comment? I don't want to use titanium and drop a valve after 10k miles, however if it won't make a difference, I might as well save the time and money switching them out.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1962636
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
jmo, but there comes a point when you sacrifice a little weight for strength, especially when running an agressive spring.Once youre at a certain point pressure wise, whats another 10 lbs? 
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,011
Likes: 1
From: Marietta Pa
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14
If you have Ti retainers on there now you may want to consider replacing them...I speak from recent experience;
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1962636
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1962636
I would be doing the work myself. I figure that since I'd change them out, but the builder already shimmed and set the install height, I just swap the retainers and have install height be the same.
I just wonder if they are more prone to failure, or if yours was a freak accident.
Also, I wonder how much I'd loose off the top end. I want to rev to about 6200RPM, but I don't want valve float.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio Texas
.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,816
Likes: 2
From: Austin, TX
I've been thinking about the same question on my new motor as I have what *appears* to be float coming in around 6K which is way low for the rest of the combo.
I recently found some info on Comp's new lightweight tool steel retainers that Kevin mentioned above:
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595903
It seems like they're the best of both worlds as they're only a couple grams heavier than Ti, but not sure if anyone's tried them yet.
Not trying to hijack the thread, but Kevin, can you please share the rest of your valvetrain combo (springs, valves)?
Thanks!
I recently found some info on Comp's new lightweight tool steel retainers that Kevin mentioned above:
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595903
It seems like they're the best of both worlds as they're only a couple grams heavier than Ti, but not sure if anyone's tried them yet.
Not trying to hijack the thread, but Kevin, can you please share the rest of your valvetrain combo (springs, valves)?
Thanks!
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio Texas
Super light-weight valvetrain parts are nice......but are not (IMHO) the #1 aspect of a quality valvetrain.
Parts should be properly matched and be of high quality/strength.
The springs that AFR uses are quite......sturdy
!Again......IMO.
KW
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,816
Likes: 2
From: Austin, TX
Thanks! Small world -- those are the heads I'm running. Only difference is the springs since mine came with solid roller springs, we had to swap them out for a set of Comp springs. Good to know that the rest of the parts appear good for the revs.