Cam questions
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 6
From: Winchester Ontario
Cam questions
I'm looking at getting a new cam. I want more power. What will the major differences be between the hydraulic roller (219/219) or the mechanical roller (236/244) be? What considerations should be made when deciding on these? Also, I would also be going to 1.6 rr's as well. CLearance issues?
While I have you reading this... :D What valve,valve springs and such should be changed to go to these cams? I was told to upgrade valve springs, and I'd want to change the 1.94/1.50 valves to probably 2.00/1.56(1.57?) because the heads are already ported, and I don't wanna spend $$$$ on new heads, unless I have to. I was also told that idle issues could arise as well.
I guess i've got a couple questions in there, haha. Also, does anyone have .cam profiles for these cams I can plug into desktop dyno? Thanks a bunch :cheers:
While I have you reading this... :D What valve,valve springs and such should be changed to go to these cams? I was told to upgrade valve springs, and I'd want to change the 1.94/1.50 valves to probably 2.00/1.56(1.57?) because the heads are already ported, and I don't wanna spend $$$$ on new heads, unless I have to. I was also told that idle issues could arise as well.
I guess i've got a couple questions in there, haha. Also, does anyone have .cam profiles for these cams I can plug into desktop dyno? Thanks a bunch :cheers:
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,620
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro OR
Re: Cam questions (black_89_vette)
The two cams you listed are fairly different in the powerband they are designed to operate in. The 219/219 cam power will start around 2500 rpm and end around 5500. The 236/242 cam will start at 3000 and end around 6000.
Check with the mfr's recommendation for valve springs. They usually cover whats needed and whether the heads need to be modified to fit the springs.
Deskop Dyno has a screen to enter the cam specs. You need to know:
intake duration @ .050 lobe lift
exhaust duration @ .050 lobe lift
intake lift @ valve
exhuast lift @ valve
intake centerline
lobe separation angle
Be sure to set the valve lift based on the rocker size you will use. Most cams for small block chevys are spec'd at 1.5 rocker ratio. Use the duration given by the cam mfr at .050 lobe lift. The gross duration is pretty meaningless. All the cam information is available on the cam mfr websites. Lingenfelter, TPIS and GM usually don't give intake center of lift so you have to guess at it. A best guess is to use the LSA angle which will put the cam timing at 0 advance. Cams are usually ground 0 - 6 degrees advanced.
Check with the mfr's recommendation for valve springs. They usually cover whats needed and whether the heads need to be modified to fit the springs.
Deskop Dyno has a screen to enter the cam specs. You need to know:
intake duration @ .050 lobe lift
exhaust duration @ .050 lobe lift
intake lift @ valve
exhuast lift @ valve
intake centerline
lobe separation angle
Be sure to set the valve lift based on the rocker size you will use. Most cams for small block chevys are spec'd at 1.5 rocker ratio. Use the duration given by the cam mfr at .050 lobe lift. The gross duration is pretty meaningless. All the cam information is available on the cam mfr websites. Lingenfelter, TPIS and GM usually don't give intake center of lift so you have to guess at it. A best guess is to use the LSA angle which will put the cam timing at 0 advance. Cams are usually ground 0 - 6 degrees advanced.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,383
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
Re: Cam questions (AquaMetallic94LT1)
If you buy the 219 from Lingenfelter, they will recommend the following to you...
Valve Locks
Comp Cam.....611-16.....$26.95
Valve Spring Retainers (Titanium)
Lunati.....LN0025-1.....$9.37 @ 16 = $149.92
Valve Spring Shims
Lingenfelter.....10185066.....$1.46 @ 16 = $23.36
Valve Springs
Lunati.....LN0018DBLAS.....$7.49 @ 16 = $119.84
Valve Locks
Comp Cam.....611-16.....$26.95
Valve Spring Retainers (Titanium)
Lunati.....LN0025-1.....$9.37 @ 16 = $149.92
Valve Spring Shims
Lingenfelter.....10185066.....$1.46 @ 16 = $23.36
Valve Springs
Lunati.....LN0018DBLAS.....$7.49 @ 16 = $119.84
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 6
From: Winchester Ontario
Re: Cam questions (scorp508)
Including the 219 cam, that comes to $ 635 :eek:
Aren't some of my parts still usable? I upgraded the cam this year, but want a roller cam to get the power out of the motor. I am now running the 12-404-4 Comp Cam (CS 268AH-14) right now. I didn't have any input, my mechanic and machinist put that one in. If I wanna see higher hp, I was told to go roller and everyone says good things about the 219. Hmm, I'm gonna double think this one now, damn that's a lot of money for a cam.
******EDIT********
BY THE WAY, THANKS FOR THE INFO GUYS
[Modified by black_89_vette, 11:01 PM 12/13/2001]
Aren't some of my parts still usable? I upgraded the cam this year, but want a roller cam to get the power out of the motor. I am now running the 12-404-4 Comp Cam (CS 268AH-14) right now. I didn't have any input, my mechanic and machinist put that one in. If I wanna see higher hp, I was told to go roller and everyone says good things about the 219. Hmm, I'm gonna double think this one now, damn that's a lot of money for a cam.
******EDIT********
BY THE WAY, THANKS FOR THE INFO GUYS
[Modified by black_89_vette, 11:01 PM 12/13/2001]
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 6
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Re: Cam questions (Goody)
I ran a 224/232 solid roller w/ 112LSA and .560" lift on a similar 355 with a ported SR, full length headers and pocket ported AFR 190's.
The dyno plots at the rear wheels is shown on my website under dyno section: http://home.pacbell.net/dorenemc/
From what I've seen this curve was very similar to the LPE 219/219 cam,
in fact if anything it's maybe slightly smaller than the 219/219 cam.
Personally, I'd opt for a hyd roller and since you have a SR I'd stick with the LPE 219/219 cam. But if you really feel you want more power and a slightly more aggressive mid-range you might consider a 232/236 solid cam from comp cams. Although, to be honest with heads that flow in the under 250cfm category you will have a better matched combo with either the 219/219 hyd or the 224/232 solid cam that I used to run. Actually, it's for sale - my buddy who bought the top end off the 355 I used to have is using a larger cam since he's got a 412, so he would sell you that comp cams 224/232 cam for cheap. I'd say it has no more than 15K miles on it.
Scott
The dyno plots at the rear wheels is shown on my website under dyno section: http://home.pacbell.net/dorenemc/
From what I've seen this curve was very similar to the LPE 219/219 cam,
in fact if anything it's maybe slightly smaller than the 219/219 cam.
Personally, I'd opt for a hyd roller and since you have a SR I'd stick with the LPE 219/219 cam. But if you really feel you want more power and a slightly more aggressive mid-range you might consider a 232/236 solid cam from comp cams. Although, to be honest with heads that flow in the under 250cfm category you will have a better matched combo with either the 219/219 hyd or the 224/232 solid cam that I used to run. Actually, it's for sale - my buddy who bought the top end off the 355 I used to have is using a larger cam since he's got a 412, so he would sell you that comp cams 224/232 cam for cheap. I'd say it has no more than 15K miles on it.
Scott
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 602
Likes: 1
From: Hacienda Heights, Ca. USA
Re: Cam questions (black_89_vette)
Go with the LT4 Hotcam. You won't be disappointed. I have one in my modidied '88 and haven't stopped grinning. I've owned lots of fast cars with high hp motors and this one is the most fun I've had. For $300 you get the cam, springs, retainers, keepers, valve seals, & I even got a brand new "take off" single roller timing chain set from SDPC. I say quite a bargain for what you get.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 6
From: Winchester Ontario
Re: Cam questions (john25)
On my dyno run (see sig) I got different results than my desktop dyno. I still think that the mustang dyno was off. Anyways, with just swapping my cam with the LT4 hot cam and the LPE 219/219 cam and nothing else in the desktop dyno, I got these results.
My cam 420hp@5000 RPM 479tq@3500 RPM
LT4 HOTCAM 419hp@5500 RPM 450tq@4000 RPM
LPE 219/219 410hp@5000 RPM 510tq@3500 RPM
All other factors were kept the same. I downloaded the LT4hotcam.cam file from the net. I set it up as Hydraulic, .525/.525, 219/229 @ 0.050. I set the 219 cam up as roller, .525/.525, 219/219 @ 0.050. Both cams at 112 centerline.
My cam 420hp@5000 RPM 479tq@3500 RPM
LT4 HOTCAM 419hp@5500 RPM 450tq@4000 RPM
LPE 219/219 410hp@5000 RPM 510tq@3500 RPM
All other factors were kept the same. I downloaded the LT4hotcam.cam file from the net. I set it up as Hydraulic, .525/.525, 219/229 @ 0.050. I set the 219 cam up as roller, .525/.525, 219/219 @ 0.050. Both cams at 112 centerline.
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Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 90,675
Likes: 304
From: SE NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: Cam questions (black_89_vette)
I wouldn't try to cam for a 383 but the heads work is another story.
Of course a 3-angle valve job with those 2.00/1.56 valves is in order. Check the valve guides, replace the seals, install 7/16" rocker studs and 1.5:1 ProMagnums (the self aligning type so you won't need new guide plates & push rods). When you select the valve springs to match the cam toss the oil shedders used atop the stock springs, use Ti retainers & 10deg keepers. This will realy lighten up your valve train and allow maybe 200-500 rpm boost before valve float.
Of course a 3-angle valve job with those 2.00/1.56 valves is in order. Check the valve guides, replace the seals, install 7/16" rocker studs and 1.5:1 ProMagnums (the self aligning type so you won't need new guide plates & push rods). When you select the valve springs to match the cam toss the oil shedders used atop the stock springs, use Ti retainers & 10deg keepers. This will realy lighten up your valve train and allow maybe 200-500 rpm boost before valve float.
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: Cam questions (black_89_vette)
It's not gonna make any difference really, but the hot cam specs are (218/228 duration, .525/.525 lift, 112 lobe seperation)
So you're real close, I doubt the 218/228 duration will change much from a 219/229. I would normally say that you'd be pleased with the hot cam, but that's actually about what you have now (according to your software), so it would be a waste of time.
I would seriously consider finding a dynojet somewhere. That's what most people use, it's what NASCAR uses, so it's accurate enough for me.
So you're real close, I doubt the 218/228 duration will change much from a 219/229. I would normally say that you'd be pleased with the hot cam, but that's actually about what you have now (according to your software), so it would be a waste of time.
I would seriously consider finding a dynojet somewhere. That's what most people use, it's what NASCAR uses, so it's accurate enough for me.
