valve seals
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,383
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
Re: valve seals (Glock'94)
How much does the machining cost though.. i keep getting caught with machining costs everywhere...
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 83,383
Likes: 87
From: Boston, MA
They are valve seals. The go on top of the valve guide (which guides the valves straight into the combustion chamber). They seal between the valve guide and valve stem so that no oil gets down into the combustion chamber.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 22,267
Likes: 3
From: Dallas TX
Re: (scorp508)
They are valve seals. The go on top of the valve guide (which guides the valves straight into the combustion chamber). They seal between the valve guide and valve stem so that no oil gets down into the combustion chamber.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,620
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro OR
Re: valve seals (Glock'94)
Lingenfelter seems to prefer viton in his heads. He also uses bronze guides on his aluminum heads. I have read that a lot of head builders are not using pc seals because the viton are more durable.
Curtis -
Head work and parts can easily exceed the cost of the cylinder block machine work. It important to get the heads reworked properly for max performance. There's nothing worse than rebuilding a motor and having heads that weren't in the same condition. Been there, done that.
The last quote I got was 200 bucks for installing guides and doing the valve job work. Bronze guides are around 120 bucks or so. A good set of valves is about 150 @ 8.00 per valve. That still leaves keepers, retainers and springs. You want new keepers (these are cheap) and new retainers (dropped valves are not cheap to fix. Titanium retainers are a big help on the valve train at high rpm but they are pricey too. Rebuiding an engine is expensive as you are finding out.
Curtis -
Head work and parts can easily exceed the cost of the cylinder block machine work. It important to get the heads reworked properly for max performance. There's nothing worse than rebuilding a motor and having heads that weren't in the same condition. Been there, done that.
The last quote I got was 200 bucks for installing guides and doing the valve job work. Bronze guides are around 120 bucks or so. A good set of valves is about 150 @ 8.00 per valve. That still leaves keepers, retainers and springs. You want new keepers (these are cheap) and new retainers (dropped valves are not cheap to fix. Titanium retainers are a big help on the valve train at high rpm but they are pricey too. Rebuiding an engine is expensive as you are finding out.
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Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 14,165
Likes: 9
Re: valve seals (Glock'94)
Hey Glock, when I did my Hot Cam we had to replace the valve seals. The new springs (doubles) wouldn't fit on the old spring seat so we had to use the new ones. In order to do this we had to replace the valve seals because we couldn't get the old ones off without destroying them.
Anyway the hardest part about that is FINDING them. I called everybody, even the dealership was clueless (big shock there huh) Anyway, I finally called up Total Engine Airflow, their business is heads, so I assume they might have valve seals. Sure enough they have them in stock. As far as I can tell they are just like the stock ones, but I don't burn any oil. I didn't burn any before, but I haven't lost any ground, I keep it in the upper RPM's a lot.
Anyway the hardest part about that is FINDING them. I called everybody, even the dealership was clueless (big shock there huh) Anyway, I finally called up Total Engine Airflow, their business is heads, so I assume they might have valve seals. Sure enough they have them in stock. As far as I can tell they are just like the stock ones, but I don't burn any oil. I didn't burn any before, but I haven't lost any ground, I keep it in the upper RPM's a lot.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Re: valve seals (Nathan Plemons)
Just buy the stock GM seals or replacements not requiring any machine work. For your engine, no point to get anything else. When I got my heads done, thats what I did.
As for Titanium retainers or other racing stuff, the stock LT4 rev to 6400 and does not have any of this stuff. If I decided to set my rev limit higher, I certainly would consider switching to titanium retainers. If you are not planning on reving it over 6400, this is a waste of money, in my opinion.
As for Titanium retainers or other racing stuff, the stock LT4 rev to 6400 and does not have any of this stuff. If I decided to set my rev limit higher, I certainly would consider switching to titanium retainers. If you are not planning on reving it over 6400, this is a waste of money, in my opinion.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
From: Marietta, South Carolina, USA
Re: valve seals (Glock'94)
I dont know how much it will cost you to cut the guides for the seals but it is not that much if you were closer I would do it for free.
Teflon seals are good seals but they are made more for racing and not the street, they are made to be changed more offen, you can get good ones that are made out of rubber they seal a lot longer then the teflon seals because they give more at the top where they seal the most the teflon dont give as much as the rubber so it will not form around the valve stem like the rubber will and the rubber ones has a spring to make it seal even better when they have more time on it.
I dont have a pic or a part number on me but I will try to find it and send it to you if you want.
Merry Christmas everybody :seeya
Jay
Teflon seals are good seals but they are made more for racing and not the street, they are made to be changed more offen, you can get good ones that are made out of rubber they seal a lot longer then the teflon seals because they give more at the top where they seal the most the teflon dont give as much as the rubber so it will not form around the valve stem like the rubber will and the rubber ones has a spring to make it seal even better when they have more time on it.
I dont have a pic or a part number on me but I will try to find it and send it to you if you want.
Merry Christmas everybody :seeya
Jay
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,620
Likes: 2
From: Hillsboro OR
Re: valve seals (Mez)
As for Titanium retainers or other racing stuff, the stock LT4 rev to 6400 and does not have any of this stuff. If I decided to set my rev limit higher, I certainly would consider switching to titanium retainers. If you are not planning on reving it over 6400, this is a waste of money, in my opinion.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 602
Likes: 1
From: Hacienda Heights, Ca. USA
Re: valve seals (Glock'94)
Use the replacements GM sells. I used these with my LT4 Hotcam install. They're the same ones used on the ZZ4, 385hp Fastburn & the LT4. I've heard the same about the Perfect Circle all teflon seals about not using them for the street. Also when the valve guides are changed, they are not ground out, they are pressed in and out. They then machine the guide boss smaller to accept the PC seal if needed.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Re: valve seals (Vette92)
ya, gotta agree with the Vitron blue seals- like that positive seal around the exhaust, and so far in 10K miles, hasn't burned a drop of oil or shown any signs of overheating the valves.... any good jobber should carry them.
Teflon wears faster- not a problem when racing, but a hassle on the street.
Teflon wears faster- not a problem when racing, but a hassle on the street.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: College Station Tx
Re: valve seals (No Go)
Yep, I would stay away from the teflon seals - they have a bad tendency to leak until you are up to temp - and no one likes a smokey car.
The viton seals are the way to go.
The viton seals are the way to go.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 4,623
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
Re: valve seals (Glock'94)
Glock, what do you mean by "regular seals" and umbrella seals? Are you talking about the "O" rings on the tops of the valvestems? If that's the case, then that's part of the stock seal kit which should be fine. I would be careful using some of the real "positive" Teflon or Viton seals along with any additional seals. (especially on the exhaust valves) Oil has to get to the interface of the stem and seal. Some of these seals are almost too good, and you need to be careful. Many engine guys rebuild for the average street driver or drag racers. I ran into a problem with the aforementioned "too effective" sealing on the exhaust valves. A guy I had used for a couple of years installed the LT4 style positve seals on both the intake and exhaust valves *along* with the O rings on both. Running my car on the track for three hours on a given weekend with that setup trashed my ex guides in 2,000 miles. Not enough oil got to them.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with the stock umbrellas on the ex and the black standard seal on the intakes along with the O rings. This is the standard kit theat you can get from GMPP that requires no machining, and they are cheap and effective.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with the stock umbrellas on the ex and the black standard seal on the intakes along with the O rings. This is the standard kit theat you can get from GMPP that requires no machining, and they are cheap and effective.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 22,267
Likes: 3
From: Dallas TX
Re: valve seals (h rocks)
Glock, what do you mean by "regular seals" and umbrella seals? Are you talking about the "O" rings on the tops of the valvestems? If that's the case, then that's part of the stock seal kit which should be fine. I would be careful using some of the real "positive" Teflon or Viton seals along with any additional seals. (especially on the exhaust valves) Oil has to get to the interface of the stem and seal. Some of these seals are almost too good, and you need to be careful. Many engine guys rebuild for the average street driver or drag racers. I ran into a problem with the aforementioned "too effective" sealing on the exhaust valves. A guy I had used for a couple of years installed the LT4 style positve seals on both the intake and exhaust valves *along* with the O rings on both. Running my car on the track for three hours on a given weekend with that setup trashed my ex guides in 2,000 miles. Not enough oil got to them.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with the stock umbrellas on the ex and the black standard seal on the intakes along with the O rings. This is the standard kit theat you can get from GMPP that requires no machining, and they are cheap and effective.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with the stock umbrellas on the ex and the black standard seal on the intakes along with the O rings. This is the standard kit theat you can get from GMPP that requires no machining, and they are cheap and effective.