I think solid lifter motors have come a long way in just the last 5 years alone...... a lot advertise zero lash cam profiles for solid lifter applications that only require adjustments perhaps once or twice a year depending on your driving habits. It really doesn't bother me to check lash every now and then, even with hyd roller cams in the past, I checked lash once or twice a year out of boredom, so with me that was not the only determining factor.

Having said that, I have chosen a hyd roller cam for my own motor.... mine is an application that will see literally 200+ 1/4 mile passes per year, yet, I also may hop in it and literally drive it across country..... regardless of the advancements made, I do not personally trust a solid lifter motor for that....I know I am sacrificing power potential doing this, but my set-up is not a max effort motor on any level... its a bracket car.

Fact is, my motor will more than likely make in the 550-580 HP range with its hyd roller cam, with a solid lifter motor, I literally could have another 50-100 hp above that just by spinning the motor up another 500-1000 rpm with a solid lifter... I know this and accept it. Thus, each individual has to figure out what they want and go with it.....

Also, to tell you the truth, the majority of time you hear a cam lobe being eaten away or a valvetrain failure that causes catastrophic motor failure, its almost always a solid lifter motor..... thats not necessarily always the direct fault of that technology, but probably in part due to the application and rpm they're running..... but the one constant you do know, a hyd roller application can and will last for years and years without the need to open your valve covers even once..... thats piece of mind, and lets face it, you can make pretty good power with a hyd lifter....any motor that makes north of 450 HP and actually is able to plant that power to the ground is in supercar territory in my opinion and your timeslip will prove it to you.

Good luck with whatever your decision is !!

 

not true based on my experience. in fact, at one point i was running a NOS kit and NEVER had any issue with knock, either real or SR induced.

maybe it has somthing to do with the placement of my knock sensor on my TPIS long tube headers, but i've never had an issue...

 

Knock sensor on the headers...

 

yep...

 

hah! my bad, thinking of the o2 sensor.

anyway, forgive my ignorance. anyway, that thoery went down the tubes (long tubes that is...).

i state for a fact though that i've never had an issue with knock and my SR setup....

 

just checked too, the knock sensor is there, passenger-side, directly in front of starter motor.

 

Gotcha, kinda had me wondering there. So, whats the sensor that screws into the pass. side head between 7 n 8 that looks like the knock sensor?

 

anyone that has owned a solid roller set up knows the problems and sacrifies made with them. If you wanna run the car for 15-20K miles and not change springs, hydraulic roller is the way to go. A solid will make more power if you are willing to use aggressive lobes that need 225 seat and 550 open pressure while changing springs pretty often. They are just hard on parts if you get a GOOD solid roller cam.

If you want some mild "street" roller lobes, just stick with the hyd roller since they are not any more aggressive and you get all the knock sensor, extra noise, etc, problems of a soild roller but very little extra HP going this way.

We have some SERIOUS hyd rollers that need 165 seat/450 lbs open and on a billet cam to handle these pressures. Something with 300/308advertised duration but 245/253 @ .050 duration and 169/175 @ .200 duration. This rivals alot of street solid roller lobes and with a good lifter, you can have "near" solid roller performance with less headaches, longer spring life, etc.

We have larger and milder cams and lobes also but that shows how aggressive you can go on a hyd roller and still be durable.

To a customer wanting a solid roller on the street, get GOOD springs, shaft rockers, GOOD pushrods, etc and a billet cam to handle the abuse.

Not sure what your gear/stall and shift RPM are gonna be or driving style but a mild set up for a 383 can use a 249/259 .590/.590 108 LSA and a real aggressive set up could be a 267/275 .680/.680 106 LSA or anywhere in between. I would try and keep the lift below .700 if it is going to be on the street at all.

 

between 6 n 8 and on the head? that's the coolant temp sensor (on the dash) i'm fairly certain.

 

sorry, meant 6 n 8. That's what I thought it was, just never took time to investigate.

 

Why the knock sensor in the collector, explain. To trick the computer, does it function at all at that point?

 

i was being totally newbeish and showing my absence form the c4 corvette scene for many a year.

o2 senor in collector, knock sensor where it's supposed to be on passenger-side block.

 

OK, from someone who does run a knock sensor and a large SR on the street in a vette. It can be done, and there are lots of cars on the street that are doing it daily. I do agree with Llyod's comments in that most vette owners will be much more satisfies with the HR, and SRs do require significant cash up front in the form of all of the valvetrain parts (mainly the shaft rockers which typically accomodate the 570-750 psi open seat psi).

My car, as well as some of the others I have set-up are not the typical 400WHP cars, but more for people who put 2-5000 miles/yr on their car and spend a fair bit of time at the strip.

It is all in what you want to do with the car, and also your budget.

Best of luck in your decision.
Aaron

 

Out of all the people that call me and WANT a solid roller, a 10 minute conversation covering most of what I have stated in these threads will stear 90% of them away. The other 10% are ready and willing to go solid roller with the sacrifices mentioned and/or called me already KNOWING they want a solid roller.

I ahve no problem getting the customer set up either way, i just like them to know what they are in for . . . .

There is NOT another 50 HP just sitting there because you have a solid roller. You MUST use a cam that has more aggressive lobes, much better valve trane parts and change springs MUCH more often to see 25-30 HP over a PROPERLY DESIGNED hyd roller with a similar power band and shift point.

If you are willing to sacrfice some drivability and low end power (more gear and stall) and up the shift RPM, we can see even more gain.

To get the most you need a GOOD CAI, 58 MM TB or mono blade, ported inatke, 1 7/8 headers, GOOD heads, GOOD exhaust and GOOD tuning also. Most do not make sue of their set up and can upgrade these parts alomng with a PROPERLY DESIGNED hyd roller set up and easily have the car run like they want with out the extra $$$ and head aches of a solid roller.

There again, some have all of this and the solid roller is the right answer for them. For every 10 people that inquire about solid roller, only 1 or 2 will end up going that way once faced with the facts.

Even if the original poster still KNOWS that a solid roller is right for them, there are probably 9 people that read this thread that has now crossed a solid roller off of their list.

Lloyd

 

Lloyd,

I've done my research and realized two things. Number 1) I dont need to spin my engine past 6500rpm. Number 2) the cost to run a solid roller is ridiculous because of the huge spring pressure needed and supporting components.

I'm going with the hydraulics. . . with the best hyd springs I can find.

Thanks for the "SOLID" advice!

 

good choice for your goals. 6500 and under is definately hydraulic roller cam area.

Get a custom grind designed for the heads and intake and you will be set

 

Hey man,

I see you are a fellow Pennsylvanian. . . .can't let you in on all of my speed secrets. We might be facing each other at the traps one day....

 

alot of people confuse 'hyd roller' with "low lift, slow ramps, no RPM, no power, etc" but I can ASSURE YOU that if you contact the right person for heads/cam set up, it will sound as wicked as you can put up with and run as hard as alot of solid rollers at the track with less headaches and $$$ spent.

Lloyd

 

that's part of the fun, tinkering around with tuning on the weekends. with a degree wheel, all lash settings can be set in four turns of the crank.

not a big headache whatsoever...

 

Having said all of this about a solid roller equipped motor, I personally do not think it can be understated how much power you can make with one..... the difference can range from subtle to outstanding, dependant on how far the owner wishes to go..... the below are a couple of motors advertised by a well known engine builder. All are 434cubic inch motors:

434- Hyd roller = 10.5-1 cr - 575 HP @ 6000 rpm - 565 ftlbs @ 4500 rpm. The do not, nor are they willing to give up their cam specs considering all profiles are custom ground for them, but based upon my conversations with a tech at this very same company, I know the cam specs are in the neighborhood of 240/240 @ .050" with lift a little under .600 with 1.6's. This motor would just be a hoot in a street car.... you could literally get by with a 3000 rpm converter and a moderate street gear for good easy no hassle street driving with no-maintenance whatsoever and still run easy 10 second et's. This motor is pretty close to what I have recently built..... I actually hope to out perform this motor, albeit just barely if at all. I think with a 3600 rpm converter and street gears such as 3.45, this set-up can generate 10.6's @ 127 mph in average air...... give it or take a couple of tenths of course.

There next street motor, using a fairly gentle solid roller cam..... it too is a 434, and is rated at 625HP @ 6400 rpm - 580 ftlbs @ 4600 rpm and a street friendly 10.75-1 cr. Once again, based upon some prodding of the tech, I have learned that the duration for this motor is in the 250/250@ .050" with about .630/630 lift..... this motor would also be a big hoot to drive on the street and really quite easy to do so..... although it would need "occasional" lash adjustment, this is perhaps 2-4times per year dependant upon what you're doing with the car. This motor in my opinion would be good for 10.3's @ 130 mph with a fairly mild 3600 rpm converter and 3.45 gears in average air.

Then they step up to some more serious motors..... they have a 434 23 degree, rated at 685 HP @ 6600 rpm - 575 ftlbs @ 5800 rpm and is a whopping 14-1 cr..... this motor obviously requires race gas and the cam is up close to .700 lift with approxmiately 264/268 @ .050"..... this motor would require a much looser converter to get itself going and to me, besides your occasional put-puts around town would be primarily a trailer car.... but, it would be good for literally bottom 10.0's @ 135 mph if not high 9's in a 3300 lb C4.

Then they have a 725 HP @ 6800 rpm 23 degree motor, 610 ftlbs @ 5900 rpm with 14.8-1 cr..... this is pure race and runs a big lumpy cam a little over 270/270 @ 050" and over 700 lift..... it would want a very loose converter and to me would be a trailer car..... but fun at the strip none the less and should be good for mid to high 9's. This motor actually utilizes the Brodix M2 23 degree cylinder head which I know forum members SkiDwnit & Ralph are both running.

The last motor I will bring up is also a 434, it is a 825 HP @ 7200 rpm 655 ftlbs @ 6000 rpm with a 15-1 cr utilizing 15 degree cylinder heads. This is a race only motor obviously, but could literally power a C4 to traps in excessive 140 mph and low 9's. I didn't prod for the cam specs on this motor, but its big.... that is all I can say.

There is one more motor that caught my eye from a different engine builder, but they wouldn't give up the cam specs at all..... it is a 434 as well with a hyd roller cam, 11-1 cr and makes 602 HP @ 6100 rpm - 598 ftlbs @ 4700 rpm....... I only bring this one up because it is the only sbc I have found with a pump gas hyd roller motor that makes 600 HP...... I "think" they are using a popular grind that has 242/246 @ .050" with a hair over .600 lift with 1.6's..... but not sure. The HP is outstanding and the Torque this motor is even more impressive.... I don't know if they have a happy dyno or if the motor actually makes this power, but if it does, they have found something that really works !

I don't really have any points to this post.... other than, as you can see, you can make big power with a hyd roller pump gas motor and you can make "BIG" power with a solid roller.... only question is, what are you going to do with your car. To me, if you're going to be a guy that maybe drives his car on its 20 mile round trip drive to and from work once a week, and maybe you drive it to and from the dragstrip on the weekend..... I think a solid rollered motor can and will have a long life provided you stay on top of things..... but the real driveability issues come from how much cam you're going to run, thus dictating how much converter and/or gear you "have" to run..... I can tell you, those high rpm motors would be complete and total puppy dogs out of the hole with a street converter in them.... you gotta go big with them to get them in motion and that hurts your street driveability as much if not more than anything..... of course the race gas thing would be a pain in the *** too.

Whatever you chose, Happy racing and please make sure you share the results with us !!